Re: YES!!!!!

by pabs Mon Jul 26 2010, 21:39

Bernie would volunteer to sue himself on behalf of the fans and then we would make money off the entire ordeal.

by TopContender Mon Jul 26 2010, 23:16

Indy lost a race for that. Spectators sued for MichelinGate.

by PLAYLIFE Tue Jul 27 2010, 04:48

Regards to dual liveries, I don't think it would be feasible.

Teams struggle enough as it is to get sponsorship for ONE car let alone two (BMW-Sauber).

And then could you imagine the battle between the sponsors over who gets which car...who the hell is going to sponsor Petrov instead of Kubica!?!

by gueuzeman Tue Jul 27 2010, 04:59

What about the German auto club (or whoever spponsors/sanctions the race suing the FIA? Or the government or whoever owns rthe track as it was rented/leased to the FIA to hold a sporting event, not entertainment like pro wrestling or the love parade or some such crap.

Also- Dani- why would you want to go to Montreal next year to see THAT?

.

by Werner Tue Jul 27 2010, 12:47

Somebody know how to start a worldwide facebook page/movement/poll or something to demonstrate to the FIA and Ferrari (sorry Dani) the world wide displeasure of true racing enthusiasts to what Knob-onso et. al. have perpetrated. Perhaps a poll saying who would like to join a class action suit against the FIA and Bernie for the time wasted in watching a predetermined outcome.

Hell it may even result in some of you jaded, (yes you Henrik), in again watching and following F! again. I really believe it has to come from the fans, from all over to initiate change.

Ya I know, "In my world, we are all ponies, we eat rainbows and poop butterflies". I love you

by gueuzeman Tue Jul 27 2010, 13:26

In my world, I eat beets and poop purple.

But I like the facebook page idea.

by Gelert Tue Jul 27 2010, 20:08

gueuzeman wrote:In my world, I eat beets and poop purple.

Deep Purple...? Great beats...!

Back on-topic:

AutoSport wrote:
Quote Monty Zemolo: "I am very happy for all our fans who finally, yesterday, saw two Ferraris lead from start to finish as they dominated the race," he explained.
"The result is down to the efforts of all our people, who never give up. Now we have to continue working like this, to improve the car so that is competitive at all the circuits we will encounter.
"Alonso and Massa also did very well, giving their all throughout the weekend."

Quote Nando: "All wins are special," wrote Alonso on Ferrari's official website, as he made no reference to the team orders issue.
"Winning is a great feeling and that was the case in Hockenheim, especially when I think of the huge workload undertaken by everyone at Maranello to achieve this fantastic one-two finish.
"No one ever gave up and I know how pleased they were to see two Ferraris cross the line ahead of all our rivals. For over a month now we have been saying that we had to get back to winning at least once before the summer break and finally, we did it.
"We did not have much luck in some races and, because of unusual incidents, we did not pick up the points we deserved. There was a slight feeling of frustration with this lack of results, but at last in Germany, for once we had a normal race on a weekend when he had no problems whatsoever and the result was there for all to see."

Quote Whittlemuch(McLaren): "If you win against the odds it is slightly more enjoyable," said Whitmarsh, who has vowed to save his views on what Ferrari did at Hockenheim for a private meeting with Maranello chiefs.
"If you win when you have swayed it to your advantage by cheating or doing something unsporting you wouldn't feel so good. When Mika [Hakkinen] was beating Michael [Schumacher], that was a pretty good feeling."
"what a great driver would want to do is look himself in the mirror and say, I have won this world championship on merit and not by the team leaning one way and giving me an advantage."
"We do desperately want to win but it is about how you win. If you win and you know you have cheated then I don't see how at any stage in your career or post career when you reflect upon it how you can have a feeling of ecstasy."

So...Ferrari are confirming that Ferrari are happy that all Ferrari fans should be happy that Ferrari achieved a 1-2. Therefore, as a Ferrari fan, do NOT question how Ferrari achieve this.
Do NOT question the finishing order.
Do NOT question Ferrari.
Simply be happy.

Sounds a bit "Moonie" to me... Suspect

Additionally, Alonso is saying that no one ever gave up.
Excuse me?
Massa gave up.
Massa gave up a place in the race order.
Ffuxache, Massa gave up the win...!
S'trewth...
Barefoot and fudge-packed much!

Finally, as a McLaren fan, I like Whitmarsh's comments, but I'm aware of the impact that e.g. DC played in some - but certainly not all - of Mika's wins.

Therefore, my personal admission that my favourite team might have had failings - and might yet have more - sort of means that I cannot thus utilise the Holy Hand Grenade of Blind Devotion in order to smite mine enemies forsooth.

Bugger.

by Mo Tue Jul 27 2010, 22:51

Werner wrote:Somebody know how to start a worldwide facebook page/movement/poll or something

https://www.facebook.com/pages/FerrariCheats/134692853233101

by Werner Tue Jul 27 2010, 23:47

Thanks Mo

by Dani Wed Jul 28 2010, 00:57

Seriously guys a Facebook page? I don't agree with what happened, but I understand the reasoning. Luca is right, the result came because of all of the hard work that the team has put into the car over the past few months and I am very proud of them for that. I'll repeat what I have already said, this is a good team that made a mistake, this was not about being "cheaters" this was about desperation. Besides calling Ferrari out for 'cheating' is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black here. I can't say that I was able to celebrate the way that I would have liked to, but Ferrari is still my team and I believe in them. I have been overly proud of them for the past few years now and my opinion will not change because of an error in judgement. Every good thing that this team has done recently cannot simply be undone in one moment. Yes Gueuze if I am able to make it to Montreal again next year I will go to support Ferrari just like I have always done. I may question them sometimes, I may agree or disagree but I'm still wearing my Ferrari polo shirt today.

by PLAYLIFE Wed Jul 28 2010, 01:50

I felt sorry for Massa but would rather have Alonso take the points as he is the only realistic chance at the WDC.

Kimi helped out Massa in 08, Massa helped out Kimi in 07, what's the big deal?

I'd rather the blunt honesty of swapping positions rather than pretend there was a fuel problem or a pit-stop switch...

Don't know but maybe you prefer being fooled into believing something fake being perceived as real?? I say take a reality check and stop whining over every little indiscretion!

by pabs Wed Jul 28 2010, 14:10

The big deal is that Massa did not help out Alonso out of his own accord; he was forced to give a position.

You are assuming that this is over a simple matter like switching positions but it is not. It is a bit deeper than that.

by Werner Wed Jul 28 2010, 19:25

Dani, it was not done out of desperation it was deliberate.

As it was during the Schumi, Brawn, and Todt era. And for me to admit that is somethin'.

by gueuzeman Thu Jul 29 2010, 07:01

Personal growth, Werner- How does it feel? I'm proud of you.

Not sure where the desperation was, they had a 1-2 finish in the bag, the TEAM ended up in the same place as they would have had Massa won.

.

by Werner Thu Jul 29 2010, 12:38

Baby steps Gueuzeman. It doesn't feel great. I am afraid I'm becoming Jaded like most of us here.

Is this why they call this place Shamu-croaks? Is it where all great F1 fans come to die when they come to realize F1 is contrived and manipulated much like professional wrestling, or as we say here Wrastling?

Anybody wanna wrastle? tongue

by TopContender Thu Jul 29 2010, 14:39

Wrastling is for little kids and Nascar fans. If you are over the age of 14 and can name the heavyweight champ, then you have a problem.

by Dani Thu Jul 29 2010, 14:54

I used to LOVE wrestling when I was 8-10. The undertaker was my favourite because he had a creepy little sidekick who carried an urn around everywhere and went "oooooooooooh Untertaker." That and Razor Ramon because he used to throw his toothpick at the camera!lol!

As for the team order being out of desperation and not deliberate. Like I already said if it was deliberate it would have happened in the pit lane or immediately when Fernando was behind Felipe in the early parts of the race. It only happened when Vettel was coming up fast and Fernando was suddenly all over Felipe. I can understand the team not wanting to sacrifice the 1-2 and risk a collision between our drivers or Vettel catching and overtaking! That's just my honest opinion.

by pabs Thu Jul 29 2010, 16:24

Isn't it John Cena?

Vettel coming up fast? Didn't he finish third, a few seconds behind Massa? I never saw him as a threat to the Ferraris.

by Gelert Thu Jul 29 2010, 20:49

Dani wrote:I can understand the team not wanting to sacrifice the 1-2 and risk a collision between our drivers or Vettel catching and overtaking!

I could understand it, if that were the case - but it wasn't.

RBR went hell-for-leather at Turkey because a rival was hunting-down Vettel big-time.
RBR ended up racing each other - and got it ever so slightly wrong.

Later at Turkey - due to a communication issue and not a rival, McLaren raced each other and got it ever so slightly right.

And then at Hockenheim - due to a communication issue and not a rival, Ferrari didn't race each other, and got it ever so slightly wrong.

Simples...

Rolling Eyes

by PLAYLIFE Tue Aug 03 2010, 06:05

pabs wrote:Isn't it John Cena?

Vettel coming up fast? Didn't he finish third, a few seconds behind Massa? I never saw him as a threat to the Ferraris.

Vettel was as fast as the Ferraris if not faster. He was on pole and set fastest race lap afterall. Whether he could get past or not is another question. In fact, in order to stay behind the Ferraris in the turbulence he would have had to have been faster.

by pabs Wed Aug 04 2010, 14:40

But he was never really a threat to the Ferraris. Maybe Felipe was pushing but by then, they were managing the race precisely because Vettel was just as fast as the Ferraris. All in all, there was no need to make Felipe relinquish his position other than to gift Alonso a victory.

by PLAYLIFE Thu Aug 05 2010, 02:10

pabs wrote:But he was never really a threat to the Ferraris. Maybe Felipe was pushing but by then, they were managing the race precisely because Vettel was just as fast as the Ferraris. All in all, there was no need to make Felipe relinquish his position other than to gift Alonso a victory.

I think the risk in having Massa lead the race was minimal in terms of Vettel catching and passing either or both Ferraris. But there was no doubt Massa was holding Alonso up and given Vettels speed, it was going to bunch them up at some stage.

It was basically the same as Turkey, when RBR told Webber to move aside for Vettel because they were concerned about Lewis.

And we all know that Alonso is the favoured Ferrari driver and the only realistic chance at the WDC. He has out-driven Massa all year.

by pabs Thu Aug 05 2010, 15:10

From the always excellent Mike Lawrence

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=41717

by gueuzeman Thu Sep 09 2010, 13:35

Didn't feel it deserved a new thread. WMC calls "extraordinary meeting".... to do nothing. No surprise.

Why do we dislike F1 so much, Playlife? Exhibit A.

Here's hoping Ferrari has a double DNF at Monza this weekend.

.

by Gelert Thu Sep 09 2010, 19:53

So - there are NO Team Orders then...

Well I'm sorry - but THIS one really just sticks in the craw:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86508

FIA: Ferrari did use illegal team orders

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, September 9th 2010, 16:57 GMT

The FIA remains convinced that Ferrari did use illegal team orders at the German Grand Prix - but it decided not to push the team further at its disciplinary hearing on Wednesday because of inconsistencies in the way the rules have been applied in the past.

Motor racing's governing body issued the full hearing notes from the meeting of its World Motor Sport Council that met in Paris on Wednesday to examine the events at Hockenheim - where it explained why the Italian team had not faced further sanctions.

The report of the meeting suggests that the WMSC felt the team orders situation was so ambiguous in F1 that it would have been wrong to punish Ferrari more - even though it was sure the outfit had imposed an illegal order on Felipe Massa.

"It is undeniable that the race result would have been different had the contentious instruction not been issued to Mr Felipe Massa," said the FIA.

However, it stated that: "there were many examples of what could have been said to be team orders in Formula 1 in recent years, and therefore there has been inconsistency in its application.

"Also its application to indirect team orders via messages where drivers raise no complaints is uncertain and difficult to detect and police.

"The Judging Body of the WMSC accepted that this may well have influenced Ferrari's approach, and Ferrari also had a legitimate concern to avoid collisions between team mates in close on track racing."

Ferrari's case was also strengthened by Williams and Sauber writing to the FIA to show their support - and point out the risks that come from team-mates colliding when fighting for position.

The sanctions that the WMSC were asked to consider were a $100,000 fine, a five-second penalty for Alonso, which would have relegated him to second, and the withdrawal of drivers' and teams' points from Hockenheim, suspended for 2010 and given back if no similar event occurred during the remainder of the season.

The FIA document also explained Ferrari's defence – that there had never been an 'order'. The Maranello-based outfit made sure to note the distinction between an order and the supply of information or a request for what a team would like a driver to do.

"In the view of Ferrari, Mr Felipe Massa was not ordered to allow Mr Fernando Alonso to pass; rather he was given relevant information, based on which he decided, for the benefit of the team, to allow Mr Fernando Alonso to pass," said the statement.

"The relevant information was that Mr. Fernando Alonso was faster than him, and that Mr. Sebastian Vettel was closing the gap on both of them.

"Mr Felipe Massa realised that the best interests of the team and the drivers' safety were going to be served by allowing Mr Fernando Alonso to pass, and acted accordingly.

"In the view of Ferrari, there is a clear distinction between 'team orders' on the one hand, and 'team strategy and tactics' on the other hand. The dispute communication should be considered as 'team strategy and tactics.'"

The report also revealed that a few laps before the radio communication where Rob Smedley informed Massa that Alonso was faster than him, both drivers had been ordered to turn their engines down – before the Spaniard was allowed to turn his up again.

"Alonso increased his engine speed without Mr Felipe Massa's being informed," revealed the FIA document. "Mr Fernando Alonso was therefore benefiting from a definite performance advantage over Mr Felipe Massa in the moments preceding the contentious overtaking."

NANDO IS A TOTAL, COMPLETE AND UTTER TOSSER...!

I hope that Ferrari are happy with the bed that they've made themselves.

What a wanker...! puke

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