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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Sat Dec 29 2012, 18:50

But even if it wasn't invented it is still an elective privilege. You have to be able to separate rights with privilege.

If people don't like an amendment, they can always attempt to change it. I'm not big on using the constitution to take rights away from people regardless if it is guns, gay marriage, or something else. I do think it should be amended to limit the power of the government.
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Re: Guns

Post by Danny Boy on Thu Jan 03 2013, 18:44

Henrik wrote:

But TC, to try and answer your question, yes I believe the rest of the world would like for the US to confiscate all the private weapons. I don't think there are many people outside the US that understand the attachment Americans have to guns. Personally I hate the things.


Oh dear

foot shooting self or words to that
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Re: Guns

Post by Henrik on Thu Jan 03 2013, 20:41

I suppose that depends on how you read it.

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Re: Guns

Post by Gelert on Thu Jan 03 2013, 20:46

Yup Danny - I saw that on the news this morning, and immediately thought of this thread...

Several interesting quotes from that link:
"Eyewitness Nathalie Frizzi told local daily Le Nouvelliste: "At first I didn't realise what was going on. I thought children were shooting at cats and I called out for them to stop." A worryingly blasé comment, IMHO - as if shooting at cats is a regular pastime in that part of Europe...

"In a separate incident on Wednesday evening, an armed man in another Swiss village stormed into a restaurant and fired into the ceiling before being overpowered by customers, our correspondent says." Shocked

"Gun attacks are rare in Switzerland, but shooting is a very popular sport in the country.
There are an estimated two to three million guns in circulation, although no-one knows the exact number because there is no national firearms register."
This last quote is concerning. At least here in the UK you legally need a "licence" to own a gun; therefore there is at least some sort of national firearms register. Obviously it doesn't reflect any illegal weapons - but the licence requirements are immensely strict: locked steel gun cupboards as a minimum.

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Re: Guns

Post by Henrik on Tue Jan 08 2013, 14:31

Let me start out by saying that although I live in Switzerland I am not Swiss and I certainly do not agree with everything here. Yes I have been criticizing the gun culture in the US, and I know that not all Americans agree with the current situation there. In the same way the gun situation in Switzerland warrants a strong criticism as well in my opinion, and I certainly do not agree with the current state.

When I say that the rest of the world can’t understand the gun obsession in the US, then yes this does also include Switzerland though. Despite the fact that there are a lot of people here that have guns at home, there is no general obsession for the wretched things. The primary reason for people having guns at home is based on the military structure of the country, where basically every able Swiss man is part of the army, serves a regular military service and shooting practice, and keeps their army allocated weapon at home for logistic purposes. It is not so much a choice of each man to acquire a gun because they like them, but rather a way to facilitate arming men in case of a conflict with another country. I would be the first to agree that this is pretty much obsolete today, but the practice currently persists.

The issue concerning a gun registry, or rather the lack of one in Switzerland is certainly a worrying one. To be honest, I was not aware of the fact that there is no federal registry in place. This comes from the fact that there are still many things in Switzerland that are done on a cantonal level, something that goes back to the countries roots. Although there are many federal rules and regulations in place, as well as a federal tax system, there are even more cantonal rules, regulations and taxes in place. In many cases it even goes to a communal level, where rules may differ from one commune to another. Nevertheless, the situation is not quite as unregulated as may appear from the articles quoted earlier. There are a number of federal regulations in place concerning the acquisition as well as the ownership of guns. First of all, in order to purchase a gun, one must first obtain a gun acquisition license. This way anybody who has ever wanted to buy a gun will be first screened and then registered. Secondly, all guns owned must be registered with the police, including guns obtained before the gun acquisition license was put in place. Finally, the guns issued by the army, by far the majority of all guns held at home, are all registered and regularly tracked by the federal army. This holds true also for ammunition, which must always be kept away from the guns themselves.

However, in spite of any sort of control that may be put in place, from time to time there will be a nutcase that one way or another gets their hands on some guns and begins shooting people. I believe it is fair to say that such incidents are far less common in Switzerland than in the US. Given the number of guns that are kept at home in Switzerland, this alone would clearly then show that people here do not have the same sort of obsession to guns as in the US. The biggest problem in Switzerland with these guns is instead kids injuring or killing themselves with their dad’s military rifle through curiosity or play.

In closing I would stand by what I wrote earlier that the rest of the world does not really understand why the US is so attracted to and obsessed with guns. There may be a gun problem in Switzerland , but I do not believe that it is one that resembles the problem in the US at all.

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Re: Guns

Post by glendo on Wed Jan 09 2013, 04:26

obviously people still live in fear of a british invasion....

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/television/piers-morgan-has-an-explosive-showdown-on-gun-control-with-alex-jones-who-wants-him-deported/story-e6frfmyi-1226550059067
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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Wed Jan 09 2013, 12:50

Wow Piers found the most extreme guy he could and put him on his show. The funny thing is that the 100,000 people who signed this petition is more than who actually watched his show. With all the free press he is getting from this anti-gun stance, you would hope to see some ratings. However nobody is watching. I think ol Piers has run his course here in the states. You can have him back Britain.
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Re: Guns

Post by Henrik on Wed Jan 09 2013, 13:22

I believe Clarkson would have something against the US sending Piers back...

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Re: Guns

Post by Gelert on Wed Jan 09 2013, 20:21

So would I...!
Piers "Moron" Morgan: total waste of airtime / bandwidth / column inches / oxygen.

Hey ho - another imminent Private Eye article awaits...

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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Thu Jan 10 2013, 01:50

Henrik wrote:I believe Clarkson would have something against the US sending Piers back...

His twitter feed about Piers is quite comical.
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Re: Guns

Post by PLAYLIFE on Thu Jan 10 2013, 13:49

Sorry for the simple question but:

For what purpose would the average American citizen need an assault weapon?
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Re: Guns

Post by PLAYLIFE on Thu Jan 10 2013, 13:49

Sorry for the simple question but:

For what purpose would the average American citizen need an assault weapon?
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Re: Guns

Post by Gelert on Thu Jan 10 2013, 19:20

To rid the neighbourhood of multiple posters...? Wink

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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Fri Jan 11 2013, 00:15

PLAYLIFE wrote:Sorry for the simple question but:

For what purpose would the average American citizen need an assault weapon?

Assault weapons are actually banned. People are using the wrong terms when describing certain guns. Reasons for owning, defending your home, hunting, and keeping the assholes in DC in check.

However, this recent attack is not about assault weapons, but all guns. The legislation being proposed goes after other guns. They want to ban all weapons, and will pack this bill with anything that bans any type of gun.
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Re: Guns

Post by glendo on Fri Jan 11 2013, 01:01

and another one:

http://www.news.com.au/world/shooting-at-high-school-in-california/story-fndir2ev-1226551700539

now if i kept posting these as they happen from all over the world, it would probably be a long time before a non-US shooting would occur. it's simple, a society dripping with guns = massive gun crime. a country without hardy any guns around = rare gun crime.
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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Fri Jan 11 2013, 13:49

This kid used a shot gun, and seems to have targeted two kids. This was not a mass killing situation. The kid claims he was bullied by the other kids, and he was going to shoot them.

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Re: Guns

Post by Gelert on Fri Jan 11 2013, 18:12

TopContender wrote: This kid used a shot gun, and seems to have targeted two kids. This was not a mass killing situation. The kid claims he was bullied by the other kids, and he was going to shoot them.
Glad that's cleared-up any misunderstanding then.

A shotgun, not a real gun, was used.
Only one person was seriously injured.
The perpetrator was initially, potentially and allegedly, the victim of another crime.
And the perpetrator gave an advance and verbal warning.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Sat Jan 12 2013, 01:29

Gelert wrote:
TopContender wrote: This kid used a shot gun, and seems to have targeted two kids. This was not a mass killing situation. The kid claims he was bullied by the other kids, and he was going to shoot them.
Glad that's cleared-up any misunderstanding then.

A shotgun, not a real gun, was used.
Only one person was seriously injured.
The perpetrator was initially, potentially and allegedly, the victim of another crime.
And the perpetrator gave an advance and verbal warning.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

I am just saying that it is not the same.

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Re: Guns

Post by da silva on Sat Jan 12 2013, 06:31

TopContender wrote:
Gelert wrote:
TopContender wrote: This kid used a shot gun, and seems to have targeted two kids. This was not a mass killing situation. The kid claims he was bullied by the other kids, and he was going to shoot them.
Glad that's cleared-up any misunderstanding then.

A shotgun, not a real gun, was used.
Only one person was seriously injured.
The perpetrator was initially, potentially and allegedly, the victim of another crime.
And the perpetrator gave an advance and verbal warning.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

I am just saying that it is not the same.


The topic is guns. The argument is that guns in society leads to more deaths. How is it not the same? C'mon TC that's even a lame argument for the NRA.
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Re: Guns

Post by glendo on Sat Jan 12 2013, 08:48

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Re: Guns

Post by Henrik on Sat Jan 12 2013, 09:43

PLAYLIFE wrote:Sorry for the simple question but:

For what purpose would the average American citizen need an assault weapon?

I think we have established earlier in this thread that we will never get a proper answer to that question from the pro-gun crowd.


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Re: Guns

Post by glendo on Tue Jan 22 2013, 21:47

yet another shooting at a school. why are schools so appealing..
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Re: Guns

Post by TopContender on Wed Jan 23 2013, 00:33

They are gun free zones. So the crooks know that they won't have to deal with getting shot at if they have a gun.

This was not a school shooting. It was an argument that got out of control.
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Re: Guns

Post by Gelert on Wed Jan 23 2013, 21:17

TopContender wrote:It was an argument that got out of control.

Excellent!

Gun-Control issue solved..!

Just bring-in "Argument-Control"....

Hey - it works here.

Henrik for President perhaps...?

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Re: Guns

Post by glendo on Thu Jan 24 2013, 01:25

i am so glad i will never raise kids in the USA........
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Re: Guns

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