USA Helathcare

What? No talk about the USA finally entering the modern era...like the rest of the industrial world and having a health care plan?

i was waiting for an american to start the topic

do you think you are a winner with the new health plan?

What can I say...

It's about fucking time! I'm sure there are a lot of people that will be bitching about the cost of this now though. Should be fun to watch Fox news these days...

I doubt it will lower my monthly premiums....

The biggest positive is that it makes conservatives crazy! Hopefully they will have aneurysms from excess blood pressure. Well, a guy can dream, can't he?

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Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.

Back to the drawing board.....

Showing the ineptitude of the Democratic majority, even when they pass a bill they can't pass a bill.

Anything could happen- including nothing. Guess I better go to work or something, earn my premiums...........

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So that makes only 20 million people now left without it....

Another 30 yrs, and the US will finally reach the medical status of Iran. (universal health care....only industrialised country without it....)

Woaw.
congrats.

oh, and also congrats to the Coward in Chief for his back paddling on Abortion...except fot the color of his skin, he is growing out to be the same kind of POTUS as chiken litlle was before him...

i watched fox today... my goodness what a redneck agenda tv channel!

my friend says he has been watching the chaos for 2 days at home. they have ripped obama apart down to a forensic level. when i went over today to watch i am amazed how distorted the fox news world is, and i bet middle america lap it up!

there was an article... 'what are they going to force us to hand over next?'... they think obama is trying to turn the USA into a communist state. the panic, and drama and propoganda is mind-boggling.

unfknblvble.

.......and the world is worried about iran having nukes?! holy moly

If reports are to be believed, the Democrats will pass the Senate health care
bill with some reconciliation changes later today. Thus, it is worthwhile to
take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.

Of course, the bill is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result
in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves,
making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live
Benjamin Franklin's adage, "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary
security deserve neither and will lose both."

The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate
and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.

1. You are young and don't want health insurance? You are starting up a small
business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego
health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the "privilege."
(Section 1501)

2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that
status? Tough. You'll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also
the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken
fat off the floor. That's because insurance companies will no longer be able to
underwrite on the basis of a person's health status. (Section 2701).

3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or
annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to
offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

4. Think you'd like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn't cover preventive
care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no
longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer
them with cost-sharing, even if that's what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn't allow
your employers' slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough.
(Section 2714).

6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency
services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and
substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment;
prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices;
laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease
management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

You're a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric
services. You're a woman who can't have children? Tough, your policy must cover
maternity services. You're a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance
abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section
1302).

7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best
you can do is a "Bronze plan," which has benefits that provide benefits that are
actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits
provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1)
(A))

8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you'd like to
offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000
for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do
not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750
fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation
changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and
your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it?
Sorry, can't do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

11. If you are a physician and you don't want the government looking over your
shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use
your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use,
provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the
resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be
just for informational purposes. It's not like the government will ever use it
to intervene in your practice and patients' care. Of course not. (Section 3003
(i))

12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an
owner and have a "Medicare provider agreement" by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010
in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn't have those by then, you are out of
luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))

13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you
can't (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over
the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the
state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by
more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).

14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well,
if that increase is deemed "unreasonable" by the Secretary of Health and Human
Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the
pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay
depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total
number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the
brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3
billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion,
jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in
2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a
pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research
and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device
makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your
share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical
devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or
$200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that
money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).

The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device
makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money,
say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance
companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net
premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and
administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7
billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8
billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion
in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better
spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth
more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make
over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual
return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than
the government? Tough. (Section 9015).

That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply
to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the
money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section
1402).

20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the
cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better
than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

Sorry, I don't get it, and call me a Commy if you want.

All I know is that health care is something we really don't worry about here. My mother diagnosed with Cancer at 77, had her Kidney removed for free. With Renal cancer, you either get it all or don't, if not then it has a very poor prognosis with generally only a year. Well she had bad luck, they were not able to remove all of it because it had spread beyond her kidney into the mesentary. This was discovered a year following surgery after a rapid decline in her health. She was given a new experimental drug, (which almost killed her until they had it fine tuned) and 3 years later she appears to be cancer free. This drug, taken orally, normally costs $5000/month, something else we don't need to worry about.

I just don't get the hysteria surrounding this issue. A lot can be discerned of a society in the way that they take care of their elderly, and disadvantaged citizens. You should be proud that finally steps are being taken to take care of one another.

PS. Extreme restraint has been exercised in the composition of this reply.

Thank you Werner.....I could agree more.

So many on the right are focused on the people trying to get something for nothing. I prefer to focus on the people who have nothing and are just trying to make something of themselves.

huge congratulations to the US and Obama for correcting one of the ugliest health systems on the planet.

TopContender wrote:We may be about to live
Benjamin Franklin's adage, "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary
security deserve neither and will lose both."

Yes, so true about helathcare....but it never bothered you about the Patriot Act.

The fact that you have learned to cut n paste 20 dumb ass statement doesn't make this policy any worse...
Doesn't the fact you're the ONLY country in the civilised world witout one appeal to you ?

As usual, you are amply demonstating you are a complete fucktwat....
Aren't u sick of been dumber then the inbred child Ann coulter and monica crawley ?

Out that list there, I particularly liked this one:

11. If you are a physician and you don't want the government looking over your
shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use
your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use,
provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the
resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be
just for informational purposes. It's not like the government will ever use it
to intervene in your practice and patients' care. Of course not. (Section 3003
(i))

Any complaints about the Patriot Act have been met with replies along the lines that the Government would never abuse it. The rrepublicans expects us to believe that, but they claim now that the government will abuse this particular point pertaining to healthcare?!

I am married to a physician and we are happy to see it through. There are of course still questions as to how exactly physician pay will be affected, so don't believe the wingnuts. From the physician point of view, there are still no clear guidelines as to how medicare claims will be handled. For sure primary care physicians will see an increase in their salary and specialists may see a cut (though I argue that there will still be a huge need for specialists so in fact they may end up with more work than they can handle. As coverage is expanded they will also see more patients, and it's not like the overall number of people with certain diseases will decrease).

But more than that, we just don't think doctors will become poor overnight. A primary care physician will still be making upward of 150K, which in my opinion is a very respectable salary and you can definitely pay off your student loans and live a normal life.

As for the bill itself, damn how can you argue against universal coverage? How in God's green earth is that a bad thing? Education and health are rights! And there are people out there getting royally screwed by the "scrupulous" business owners that TC's post talks about. For instance I know of a few people who have been working for over 20 years without health insurance because they are contracted for 39 hours when 40 was the required for health insurance. Yeah, that sounds fair...

pabs wrote:Education and health are rights!

Nailed it !!

...and to be honest, it is not even as if the US is running the risk of ruining something worth it...the best in the world...
The US healthcare is, at this point, already under par.

The one where I am now on the other hand (Belgium) is something else...100x better then the one I left behind in Canada...maybe the best in the world (according to WHO)...

Of course it ain't free : it costs me 5$ to see my doctor, 8 if he comes to my house......and 10 if it's a specialist...
But it is because of my income...many pay less then me.

Indeed. I suppose one could make a similar list to the one TC posted with regards to education.

What if you are young and smart and you don't want to spend your money on education, well guess what? Now you still have to pay! Damn education system, ripping off our money!!

On the other hand, if you are young and stupid, the national education is probably a good thing. So, since the republicans are not against education, I suppose it is because they are all stupid...but we knew that already! Then again, they are trying to dumb down the education by teaching creationism and not allowing evolution to be taught. I guess they want to bring it to their level.

the other factor is that this terrible system was instigated over a generation ago, so a lot of americans dont know anything else, and dont know of how it was before this happened. Nixon's government was the one who changed it.

so something so big and drastic is feeding to the propaganda, and doomsayers.

I wish I understood what was going on.

I've been sadly lacking the time or energy to find out, and I have a rep who is a douchebag.

I figure, I'm not going to be happy with the end results, mainly because it's going to be so watered down to please everyone it will please no one. But hey, it's a start, right?

Seriously. I love you guys.

Who need a Healthcare system, when, like chiken litlle, you can wipe "nigga germs" on Clinton's shirt ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kIJ3Cu-aQ

i hope they dont name an aircraft carrier after dubya... it's going to be the most cursed, hated and jinxed warship in the world.

Srrh wrote:the inbred child Ann coulter and monica crawley ?

Actually you already think like a dumb blonde...

Everyone already has access to a doctor if they need one.

This bill was nothing more than a federal power grab. Obama's bill will force the states to take on a huge portion of the cost. Now we are seeing states line up to sue to government because they can't afford it.

This bill did nothing to make sure that future obligations will be paid for, and only adds to the problem. Allegedly the bill will put money aside to pay for everything, but I doubt the cash will sit there and not be spent on some other programs.

Regardless of what you think about the bill, the last thing we needed was some further burden on the economy. Obama should have spent his time on job creation, and not this. However, with the debt this retard is amassing one can assume he doesn't have a clue. Finally, the cherry on top was that the Dems made sure that congress is exempt from the bill.

I'm sorry TC, but how on earth can you say something like "the debt this retard is amassing..."? Seriously! After 8 years of Bush/republicans destroying your country, and amassing the biggest debt in history, how can you say that? What the fuck is he to do with the crap situation he has taken over?

I suppose the good news for the the rest of the world is that Obama is focusing his efforts primarily on domestic issues and not spending his time fucking up the rest of the world like his predecessor. This in turn ensures his opponents are also focusing their wrath on domestic issues.

So, I'm pretty happy with how things are going. Ultimately, what do I care if the US has a healtcare system or not...