USA Helathcare

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Srrh on Sat Mar 27 2010, 00:21

TopContender wrote:Everyone already has access to a doctor if they need one.

Well, there you go.
You're just full of shit.
And it is just the first line of your post.

Dude,

This will ultimatly cost less then 10% of a defense budget, which just buys you thinyges that will be obsollete in a few years. And that bothers you not, you inbred fuck.
You'de be taken much more seriously if you picked you fight...

As it is, you sound like a tronbone high on gasoline vapors.

Fuck you and your sister donkey.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by glendo on Sat Mar 27 2010, 07:33

i wish a republican was voted in after bush. because the shit storm still would of hit from bush's wicked ways, and they would have had no-one to blame but themselves.

now, obama is stuck in the hangover from bush and is going to be blamed for it all. republicans will probably get voted back in, create a bigger mess and blame it all on obama's term. obama is going to be the scapegoat for a generation.

back to healthplan reform if they brought the military home and curbed the world domination, that would pay for it all, and probably give you some change.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by TopContender on Sat Mar 27 2010, 20:06

Henrik wrote:I'm sorry TC, but how on earth can you say something like "the debt this retard is amassing..."? Seriously! After 8 years of Bush/republicans destroying your country, and amassing the biggest debt in history, how can you say that?

Both parties lost their minds. Bush spent in ways that were over the top, and Obama is now upping the ante. The idea of healthcare reform was to make sure it was solvent. Obama just created a new spending spree.

If someone doesn't want to buy healthcare it is their freedom to do so. I for one am not happy being told that I have to do something. This bill took away personal freedoms, and will cost us severely.

I had a buddy recently (without insurance) stroke out, and went to the same ICU they send the Indy drivers (Methodist Hospital). He wasn't kicked out or denied a thing even though he was there for 2 months. It is a law that a hospital can't deny coverage, even though they don't have coverage.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by eso on Sat Mar 27 2010, 23:50

TopContender wrote:
I had a buddy recently (without insurance) stroke out, and went to the same ICU they send the Indy drivers (Methodist Hospital). He wasn't kicked out or denied a thing even though he was there for 2 months. It is a law that a hospital can't deny coverage, even though they don't have coverage.

Great, so now the irresponsible ass has become a burden on all of the taxpayers.

I guess you think it's good to use emergency rooms as primary care for the uninsured too.

It's galling the bs you and your ilk spread around this issue. There needs to be a public option, only then will the costs start to stabilize.


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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by gueuzeman on Sun Mar 28 2010, 00:10

Either that or your buddy will be hit with a 50,000 dollar bill that will bankrupt him for the rest of his life. So when he's homeless and sleeping on your couch you can be happy.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by eso on Sun Mar 28 2010, 00:32

gueuzeman wrote:Either that or your buddy will be hit with a 50,000 dollar bill that will bankrupt him for the rest of his life. So when he's homeless and sleeping on your couch you can be happy.

$50,000 would be the first day or two with the heavy testing and and ICU. The bill for 2 months would be an incomprehensible sum that will bankrupt the poor douchebag or f*ck his credit up for life.




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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by TopContender on Sun Mar 28 2010, 01:29

Maybe it will mess his credit up, but it was his choice to not get insurance.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by eso on Sun Mar 28 2010, 04:19

TopContender wrote:Maybe it will mess his credit up, but it was his choice to not get insurance.

Yeah, F*ck him...
United we stand

You're such a douchebag TC...


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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by gueuzeman on Sun Mar 28 2010, 07:03

So the emergency room is the first line of defense for the uninsured.

Got cancer?- yup, we found it- but we don't do chemo. (Go home and die)

Liver issues- yup, we found it, but we don't do dialysis. ( Go home and die)

Broken leg?- yep0, we'll set the bone, but no physical therapy. ( Go home and be a cripple (beats dying))

BUT IT WAS HIS CHOICE NOT TO GET INSURANCE????????
I pay $7.26 an hour (on a 2000 hour year) for coverage for my family. How is someone in marginal conditions supposed to afford that?



This is where I usually tell someone that I hope their family members get horribly expensive diseases.... long lingering ones. But since you're a fellow Shamuist I won't do that.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by eso on Sun Mar 28 2010, 16:06

Our family coverage is right at $12K/year now with the last increase factored in.

I'm lucky to be in a position to afford really good coverage for us and I don't plan on moving to cheaper coverage to save a few pennies in the short term.

What the detractor noise machine doesn't get is that covering everybody would save money over the waste from the uninsured using emergency rooms as primary care, an expense that we all end up shouldering.



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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by pabs on Sun Mar 28 2010, 17:26

What a load of crap TC.

Access to health care is much more than having a doctor nearby. If you can't pay for treatment then you don't really have access to anything. Furthermore, hospitals are only required to stabilize you and then they can send you on your merry way. If you need treatment for something like cancer then you are fucked because nobody will treat you.

Besides, do you really think there are people out there who willingly choose not to have insurance? I am willing to bet my left nut that 99% of people who don't have insurance is because they are FORCED to make a choice between insurance and say, food or college tuition or something else. They are put into an impossible situation. Also, what about people who have to take jobs that don't offer health insurance? Do you think they took those jobs because it is so great to not have it?

Your definitions of freedom and choice is archaic at best. People are not really free to choose whether they have insurance or not. The vast majority of people will always choose to have it (even if your dimwit of a friend chose not to). You only really exercise freedom when, all things being equal, your choices do not involve a compromise between the basic human needs like food, shelter, clothing, education, or life (which includes health care).

Seriously dude, what parallel universe do you inhabit?

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Henrik on Sun Mar 28 2010, 20:49

Pabs, you are getting at something that I had trouble to understand. Who in their right mind would not want health insurance? I know that we tend to be over insured here in Europe in general, but health insurance is something I would most certainly not want to be without. Knowing the costs of hospitals even for the smallest intervention, there is no way in hell I would want to be without insurance.

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by TopContender on Sun Mar 28 2010, 22:56

Henrik- The US healthcare system is a choice. Some people want to run that risk, and others (like myself) don't. There is a huge portion of the uninsured that simply opt to not participate. My brother has cash, and won't get coverage. He has decided to run that risk. I recall under Bill Clinton's economic boom the total insured never changed even though people had cash.

To me the issue is 3 fold:

1. I don't want the government telling me I have to do something. If I want to get coverage, it is on me
2. I don't want to pay for mandates that don't even secure what is already in play.
3. This bill passed the buck on the states. With the states Medicaid fixes it puts us in the red.
3.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by pabs on Mon Mar 29 2010, 00:28

You are going to have to back up that claim that a huge portion of the uninsured are people who simply don't want to get insurance. I am raising the bullshit flag on that one.


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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by da silva on Mon Mar 29 2010, 03:12

TopContender wrote:
1. I don't want the government telling me I have to do something. If I want to get coverage, it is on me

Seriously? lol!

Of all the things your government tells you are mandatory, this is the one you're taking a stand on?
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Henrik on Mon Mar 29 2010, 08:21

I hear what you are saying TC, but I really don't get it. Even a small intervention at a hospital costs thousands, probably at least 10 years of health insurance premiums. If you then end up with a more serious condition it is easily a lifetime of premiums that will be gobbled up in less than a month, and can easily destroy you financially. The risk so totally out-weighs the premiums to pay that I insist, how can somebody who is sane and can afford health insurance not take it? No offense to your brother, but to me it is sheer stupidity.

Also, as da silva says, with all the freedom that the US government has taken away from their people because of national security (as they so conveniently say) why are you so against something that is ultimately something good for all the people?

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Trixie on Mon Mar 29 2010, 16:08

TC, your stand on this makes no sense whatsoever.

Quick story, son's g/f had an asthma attack. Didn't go to ER or doctor, because she didn't have insurance. Ended up in ICU for 3 days shortly thereafter. A trip to a specialist would probably have stopped that ICU visit and her near death. She's in that category of young 20's who don't yet have their own insurance through work but don't qualify for parent's extended coverage. And we live in a large metropolitan area, not rural.

Do you also feel that people don't need auto insurance? That's required. What about kids and vaccinations? Do kids have the right to not have vaccinations for diseases and thus the opportunity to infect and sicken the rest of the US population?

Preventative healthcare will save a lot of money in the long run, both in productivity and less trips to the ER.

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by TopContender on Mon Mar 29 2010, 21:41

Auto Insurance is different because it is a privilege to drive on the roads, not a right.

Hen- As for not getting coverage, it is stupidity, but it is their option.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Henrik on Mon Mar 29 2010, 22:39

We can then agree that it is stupidity. The thing is, this stupidity ultimately has a higher cost on society than if there is a healthcare system.

Don't forget that in any country with a proper health care system, individuals still have the option to take out insurance for further coverage. As such, everybody still maintains the option to decide what sort of coverage they want, but at least everybody is ensured to get some coverage.

Another thing that needs to be considered is that in order to allow a small number of people to have the "freedom" to practice their stupidity, millions that have the intelligence to want healthcare can't afford it and so must go without. Those people don't get to chose.

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Werner on Tue Mar 30 2010, 00:27

"Another thing that needs to be considered is that in order to allow a small number of people to have the "freedom" to practice their stupidity, millions that have the intelligence to want healthcare can't afford it and so must go without. Those people don't get to chose."

Ya!!

And what about those bastards who choose to smoke in countries with socialized medicine; should they have to take out extra insurance to cover the cost of their cancer treatments so the rest of us don't?

Or or the bastards that don't wear seat belts, who pays for their hospital bills when they are all banged up? Shouldn't they pay extra because they chose not to exercise freedom not to wear a seat belt?

Or hold on... wait for it... and what about the bastards that choose to exercise their personal freedoms and partake in the most dangerous form of transportation, driving crotch rockets. Who pays when they ...?


Hee hee, just joking, thought I would add a little levity, hee hee.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by gueuzeman on Tue Mar 30 2010, 03:16

Perhaps a bit of levity on the motorcycle thing, Werner, but- Consider that there are many states here in the U.S. which do not require helmets when riding a motorcycle. When these people crash I think they should be allowed the freedom to bleed out on the side of the road- it's cheap. And besides, instead of wasting the effort to save them, you could capture the death on video on your phone and post it on youtube.

EDIT- and people like Henrik who wear helmets and leathers should have every effort made to save and rehabilitate them.

.

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Henrik on Tue Mar 30 2010, 08:16

It's a valid argument Werner. Just a question, at present when you subsrcibe for health insurance in the US, do they charge you more if you smoke or ride motorcycles?

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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Werner on Tue Mar 30 2010, 12:13

I live in Canada Henrik. We are able to buy health insurance, but mostly for dental, vision,and drug plans. Depending on coverage you may have private rooms or semi-private vs. wards if you are hospitalized, but everybody here gets the same basic health care.

Those arguments were musings from my father maybe 25 years ago. He was a wise man.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by TopContender on Tue Mar 30 2010, 13:13

Hen- Yes they charge more for the smoking. I get dinged for my heart, but that is OK by me.

Another issue is that the country is strapped for jobs, and Social Security is now paying out more than it is taking in. Obama should have fixed these issues instead of creating more entitlements.
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Re: USA Helathcare

Post by Henrik on Tue Mar 30 2010, 13:21

Canada Eh! I knew that (it even says so under that photo of the beautiful Beemer)!

If they charge more if you smoke, how do they check on that? I know some heavy smokers that have smoked for 30 years, and when doctors look at an x-ray of their lungs they could swear the person has never smoked. It seems to me something a bit difficult to enforce.

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Re: USA Helathcare

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