Four More Years

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Four More Years

Post by Henrik on Wed Nov 07 2012, 06:38

Thank you USA for voting.

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Re: Four More Years

Post by Gelert on Wed Nov 07 2012, 07:41

America - as you were gentlemen...

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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Fri Nov 09 2012, 09:22

Wow we voted for a guy who is Bush on steroids. I'm not saying Romney was the guy we should of had, but he was a better option. Hopefully Rand Paul will run in 4 years and give us an option that actually isn't a party clone.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by Gelert on Fri Nov 09 2012, 15:02

1,458 days to go.
study

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Re: Four More Years

Post by glendo on Fri Nov 09 2012, 15:14

from down here, the GOP looks like a whack job of an organisation with fundamentalists freaks that live in the 50's, who want to turn back time to the time of puritans. Obama may not be perfect but jeez, if the republicans get back in WW3 would probably start... it almost started last time.

sure, i dont live there and 'feel' how things are, but take a step back and watch fox news, and GOP interviews and ideologies and it will feel like you have had a lot of LSD...

America is screwed because it is trying to be something absolutely alien from the rest of the world. there is a fantastical fear of normal things, and a dream of horrendously stupid things to make it better..... as the saying goes.. only in america

end rant..

ps... why should i care? america has the impact to affect everyone on the planet, so i do care a little bit.

completely end rant.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Fri Nov 09 2012, 16:18

TC, I'm curious if you believe your political party is out of touch with the country? If you believe alienating women, latinos, blacks, gays and other ethnic groups is an effective path towards leadership?

Do you believe suppressing non-partisan research stating that 30 years of Republican tax policy (Supply-side, "trickle down) cannot be show to correlate with job creation or any benefits to the economy as a whole is an honest way to deal with this country's fiscal issues?

I'm not a fan of this personality, but this is very well stated:



And then there's the satirical side of the coin:



TC, Do you think you and your ilk might need to get out, take a serious look around and try to get a better perspective on the country?


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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Sat Nov 10 2012, 16:35

I think Obama has a way of getting out the minority vote that is very difficult to match. I don't think you will see that again in 2014, because he will not be on the ticket. I also think having over 50% of america on some form of government assistance didn't help either.

As for Mitt, he was not the right guy. He is a used car salesman, and his choice for VP was boring. Ol Joe said nothing during the VP debate, and still looked better. Mitt was toast before he had the nomination. He was so bad that he failed to energize the base even though Obama was so badly hated. His campaign only got one thing right, and that was the prep for the first debate. After that he was 2nd to everything. Even the ORCA program to alert who hand't voted was rolled out wrong, didn't work, and had 37,000 volunteers asking what to do, and who to get.

I Predict the following will happen in the next few years:
1. Debt will finally become an issue.
2. Obamacare will piss a huge amount of his supporters who thought they were getting free healthcare.
3. 2014 will see big gains for the Republicans.
4. With Patreaus, Hillary, and Geitner quitting. We will see some cracks.
5. Hillary will Run to POTUS, but will distance herself from Obama.
6. Patreaus'- will write a book about Libya.
7. Geitner will be exposed for QE Forever.

What the Republicans need to do:
1. Ignore the social issues that are settled like abortion.
2. Don't give in to Obama's spending.
3. Let Obamacare do the work of killing Barrack's popularity. It will be a rude awakiing to people
4. Let the fiscal policies play out.

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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Sat Nov 10 2012, 17:16

So the Cliff's Notes version of your answer would be "No". You don't think anything is wrong with your party's approach and it's all because "Those People" come out to vote for "him" and because they want "free stuff".

Your idea is to double-down on intransigence and continue with the "conservative" pundits' beliefs that mainstream polling is skewed and creating their own polling that indicates "landslides" in your favor?

You do know that in the last 2 years the administration has actually spent less and reduced the size if the federal government, don't you?

I really take issue with people that cheerlead going to war on a credit card, cutting taxes with no budgetary offsets, legislate huge prescription drug benefits that don't allow the government to negotiate rates with the pharma companies, and then blame the adult that is elected and handed the bills for the previous spending binge.

Reagan increased the national debt by 87% with his policies, Bush II added over 5 trillion and his policies are still adding to it and yet you blame the guy trying to pay the bill...

And the election results are only because the current guy gets "Those people" out to vote... You're so delusional it's scary.


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Re: Four More Years

Post by Gelert on Sat Nov 10 2012, 17:39

1,457...

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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Sat Nov 10 2012, 21:21

I think it is more like stick to jobs, and debt, and how bad Obamacare is effecting everyone. Obama just got elected based on all the entitlements he gave away. He is about to fine those same people for not having health insurance, and that will lead to a major turn in his popularity.

Remember the average voters could care less about the national debt. They don't understand it or inflation. They do understand free entitlements, and fines. Most of these less informed think obamacare is free health insurance. So you better believe that when Obama takes $700 away from those that are expecting a freebie, he will see a backlash.

You mix Obamacare, small business fines, and closures, and you will see many in that minority group that voted for him either stop supporting or turn on him.

I'm just sitting back and waiting for the Coming Anarchy.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by Henrik on Sat Nov 10 2012, 23:56

Reading the comments here, and also more in general, I get the impression the Republicans just care about winning the presidency, whereas the Democrats care about trying to fix a messed up country and economy.

TC, saying that the average voters could care less about the national debt actually scares me. If the US debt problem would only affect the US I might not care, but unfortunately it affects the global economy.

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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Sun Nov 11 2012, 05:16

TopContender wrote:I think it is more like stick to jobs, and debt, and how bad Obamacare is effecting everyone. Obama just got elected based on all the entitlements he gave away. He is about to fine those same people for not having health insurance, and that will lead to a major turn in his popularity.

What new "Entitlements" did he introduce? The most recent one I'm aware of was BushII's Medicare part D prescription drug benefit that allows the pharmaceutical companies the set the prices the gov't pays and it's already added many billions to the national debt

Why are you afraid the give a simple yes/no answer to a straightforward question here.

Henrik, one of the biggest problems here is that the Republicans only care about the deficit and national debt when they're not increasing it. The Bush years really sent us over the edge with 2 elective wars, the prescription drug give away and tax cuts, none of which were paid for in any way: 8 years on credit card binge and then they want to blame the current administration for their spending spree.

It is interesting to read the various spin here following the election. The right didn't like the polling, stating that is was left biased, so they created their own. From that point on they operated in a self-substantiating vacuum and were sure they'd have a landslide victory. In the days before the election the Right-wing pundits were claiming they'd win by the almost margin Obama ended up winning by. There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on to get it that wrong.

Here's a few tidbits:

http://americablog.com/2012/11/romney-shellshocked-fell-for-unskewed-polls-and-foxs-unskewed-news.html

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/09/10/the-members-of-romneys-campaign-who-work-for-fo/189821

This is a great insight into the Romney character. He cut off his campaign workers credit cards within moments of completing his concessions speech, potentially leaving people stranded in the middle of the night:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/11/08/mitt-romneys-campaign-cancels-staffers-credit-cards-in-the-middle-of-the-night/

And this is an interesting critique of the Romney campaign:

http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/gop-denial-2012-11/

One of the things that really infuriates me is that many of the same congresspersons that did all of the Bush era big spending are the same ones that are now making such a big deal out the THEIR deficits. The disingenuous cynicism of these people is really over the top.

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Re: Four More Years

Post by Gelert on Sun Nov 11 2012, 11:41

A quick poll chez-moi, and Eso is winning this debate.
He's got links and pictures and stuff to colour-in with crayons and everything...

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Re: Four More Years

Post by glendo on Sun Nov 11 2012, 12:27

Republicans go be a normal party if:

- they ditch the hardcore rightwing conservatives aka 'tea party' types.. let them start their own extremist party. GOP is observed as attracting the most idiots with donald trump personality.
- ditch fox news
- a new business model, that can be conservative, with less biblical ideology. it's the 21st century, not 1955.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Sun Nov 11 2012, 21:10

Hen, I think it's s that most swing voters don't understand the debt issue. As long as they keep getting free stuff, they could care less about the debt. Look at Greece, they keep spending and it only gets worse.

As for giving into Obama, I think that is suicide. I would distance myself from him because we know the Future is grim.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Sun Nov 11 2012, 21:24

You talk non-sense TC, and you still can't answer a simple yes/no question.

Only a moron would believe that people would prefer to live at poverty levels on hand-outs instead of making a decent living. This is one of the great fallacies of the right-wing BS machine.

Yes, things are shaky world wide, and it won't take much to tip this country over the edge. That's a big reason why the house repubs need to ditch their Grover Norquist fantasy and actually do something.

Consider this: they were a complete failure in the last 4 years since their single stated goal (in spite of their oaths of office to serve the country) was to make Obama a one tern president.

Do yourself a favor and pull your head out of the conservative spin-dryer, read some news from different perspectives and try to get a clue.


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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Sun Nov 11 2012, 23:21

The problem with Romney was that he never energized the base. This is a guy we settled on. In fact by looking at his past history he was the Governor of Massachusetts, and passed a bill that was practically a blueprint for Obamacare. Even before the first debate he was nowhere in the polls. He got a good boost when he smoked Obama in the first debate, but after that he did nothing. The last debate was so bad that he agreed with Obama on everything, and never even pressed on Libya.

It is Hard to energize the base when you have a Mormon, blue state Governor, who passed a similar health bill that every Republican hates.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by glendo on Sun Nov 11 2012, 23:26

hell, almost 40% of australians receive a government assistance in some way or form, and that's been with both parties in power. it's not always a bad thing, it's just how our government works.

we get free health. you took that away from us it would cause a revolution. private healthcare is optional, if you want a better bed, private room, elective surgery etc.

we get subsidized medicine. most medicines prices are capped.

unemployment benefits are around $300 per week.

unemployed single mothers can get almost $30000 in benefits a year.


if i want to buy a house at the moment, they will give me $25000 as a starting home grant... not a loan, just give it to me, and rach and i earn ~$250,000 a year combined. it is not means tested, it's just to get the economy going.

we are taxed a lot higher than america, our quality of life is better, and government support is better. our economy is stronger, our jobless rate is lower.

some people abuse the system.. yes. try and find me a system in the world that no-one abuses.

the strength of a country is not measured on how well the rich are doing, but on how bad the poor are doing.

we are not a socialist country. we are a democracy. this is what the nation wants, government regulation to protect citizens. government help on a bad day, and pay more taxes to get a better service.

and most of the G20 world uses this model except one...........
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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Wed Nov 14 2012, 00:28

Yeah, but here in the USA we are now over 50% of Americans that get benefits. Years ago was like 20%, and the economy was doing better. I read a stat that said that Benefits under Obama have grown 75X that of actual growth.

It also is not good when we see the Obama Phone lady on Youtube talking about how easy it is to get benefits.


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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Wed Nov 14 2012, 01:14

Stop watching Faux News and listening to Rush and Glen Beck TC, You'' be better informed for the effort?

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the country was perilously close to falling into a depression a few years ago and unemployment skyrocketed as well as the home foreclosure rates. Historically economic downturns like that will cause huge spikes in people needing assistance.

Did you know the "Obama Phone" was a program started during the Reagan administration?

It's really embarrassing to hear the misinformation continually parroted from the right in this country being accepted as fact.

Like Rmoney's campaign stating that they weren't going to let fact checkers dictate their campaign...


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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Wed Nov 14 2012, 04:13

I don't like any of the benefits regardless of who started them. All Romney had to do was say that he was taking spending to the level of Bill Clinton (inflation adjusted), and I think he would have won people over.

The banks, I think Romney should have made it a point that those in charge should have to sell their stock back to the company for $1, and not take their golden parachutes to avoid prosecution.

As for foreign policy, mitt needed to be different. I personally would have said that we needed to stay out of Libya, and Egypt. I know Mubarak, and gadaffi were jerks, but they had stability. Now we have a mess with extremist killing ambassadors in Libya, and Egypt gone back 50 years. You don't hear that on any liberal or conservative program.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by eso on Wed Nov 14 2012, 05:12

Hey TC, Obama won the election, and Rmoney lost. Not just lost, but lost BIG.

You need to accept that, stop trying to Monday morning quarterback your way out of the reality and move on.


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Re: Four More Years

Post by Gelert on Wed Nov 14 2012, 21:02

Another 1,453 more days of this...?

No

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Re: Four More Years

Post by TopContender on Thu Nov 15 2012, 00:28

Gelert wrote:Another 1,453 more days of this...?

No

Ha, this is DC politics. It will never end regardless of what party is in office.
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Re: Four More Years

Post by glendo on Thu Nov 15 2012, 07:21

here's the Billion dollar question: who's next? do you think Hillary will run for office?

Jed Bush? (i frickin hope not)

Sarah Palin? LMAO affraid
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Re: Four More Years

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