YES!!!!!

Sorry...just excited about the front row! Ferrari 1-2 here we come! :-D

I'm happy you're happy. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

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Bending rule Dani, Massa not happy.

Ferrari, same old, same old.

Don't taunt me right now Danny please. They did what they thought needed to be done, I just feel sick right now. It hurt last time, but this time it's different and in many ways harder because I was so certain of what would happen and the exact opposite did. I've never seen Stefano so desperate and I can understand that because I too was worried about Vettel, about both cars going off and us ending up with nothing, I felt the desperation of this season. I don't know what would have happened if they hadn't made the choice and I am very worried about the team becoming divided. In the end, they are still a good team, they have Ferrari's interests at heart and I support them. This Ferrari is not the same as the Schumacher era Ferrari, not even close. I think they will learn from this, I just hope that Felipe will be alright. He looked just like Rubens, what an awful memory. We're back in the title fight, time to look forward once again.

Don't worry Dani, I love you and your passion.

No, Massa was much more classier than Rubens. No crying and whining. Now that the Schue is on the other foot, I can see why everybody hated Ferrari for Austria, but at least than it was legal!

Oh that just stank more than vilest bovine dysentery that I have encountered!

Nothing will come of this especially with Todt at the helm.

I feel for you Dani... that just sucks.

Furthermore, that little jerk can't even lie as good as Schummel did. Don't think he did not know about Singapore in '07, the weasel.

As someone in another forum said, "the FIA should fine themselves for being so incompetent"!

Any body want to chat?

I'm in

Alonso is pure poison...!

I respect his driver skills, but...
Virtually very team that he has driven for has fallen foul of the rules - with him at the centre of the issue.

As he tried to explain the Hockenheim Ferrari Team Orders issue today in the after-race Drivers' Press Conference, with every lie out of his mouth - and yet with an Oscar-winning straight / poker face - I became more and more convinced that he knew EVERYTHING about Piquet Junior's manoeuvre in Singapore - before, during and after.

As I said, the guy is just pure poison...

I have warmed to the Massa + Smedley team over the past three seasons. Massa's reaction on the podium to the fans, after Lewis beat him during the last corner of the last race at Sao Paulo was THE magnanimous gesture of the decade....although we all had a jolly good laugh at the "Owned" Avatar featuring Massa's Dad.

No. Today was bollox. Totally mis-managed by Ferrari. And fair play to Rob Smedley that he allowed the world to hear enough information for us all to understand what it was that was going on.

US$100,000 fine and a case before the WMSC. I can only hope that somewhere along the line, Nando gets his arse packed with something other than his own ego.

I'm sure that Smedley will be spoken to. Smedley put gasoline all over that fire, he might as well have said "Fernando is faster than you...wink wink!" and then to say sorry after and then the use of the word magnanimous to describe Felipe's performance. He had a little tantrum because he didn't get his way, argue your point but it is not professional to broadcast that argument on international television that discussion belongs on the pitwall and in the debriefing after. Stefano's biggest mistake was to let Smedley deliver the message, I think for the first time in my life I agree with DC, Stefano should have done it himself. It would have eliminated all of that bullshit. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself.

Now that Ive have time to think I'm a little calmer. The team orders were not about number 1 and 2 for sure, if they were Felipe would have been left out for 3 extra laps before his pitstop because that's all it would have taken. They gave him a chance because they (the pitwall) were freaking out amongst each other for the whole race about the potential for danger with the two drivers fighting. Finally Stefano had Australia looming in his mind, he had two awful races on his mind, he probably had the same nightmare that I did last night where Felipe and Fernando took each other out while in the lead. This was 100% about desperation and not a return to the days of Schumacher.

They should be found innocent. There is absolutely no evidence to support the argument that team orders were used. Just speculation. They made a huge mistake, but sometimes in the heat of the moment it is difficult to think clearly. I am worried about the dynamic of the team because there cannot be that type of drama on the pitwall. When my boss tells me to do something, I do it. If I have an issue I pull her into the office after and we talk about it and resolve the problem. I may think that I know better quite frequently, but that's not my call to make.

If we have any hope of salvaging the championship we have to be a team and not divided.

Chat?

It's funny because I have not seen an F1 race for years (I think the last one being Singapore 08, and before that it must have been Spa in 06 or something), and today I was installing a new set-top box at home. As it tuned in, the F1 race was on, and I thought I would watch for a couple of laps. That was when Massa "forgot" to accelerate out of a corner and Alonso went past. I was like, nothing has changed! This is still just as much crap as last time, and I switched to another channel a few laps later.

There were a few other things that struck me though. First of all, I found the cars really ugly. They look horrible with the huge snow-plow front wings, the narrow rear wing and the sort of fins going from the air scoops back to the rear wing that look like billboards on the side of a city bus. Yuck! However, I found the on-board camera shots amazing.

I love Massa's non acceleration. It just pointed out the b.s. Of the situation. They should strip Freddy of the win, and take all the points from Ferrari. People watch sports to see people fight it out, not to watch others stage a win.

Ferrari seem to have some sort of discrimination against Brazilian drivers. It would be interesting to know what Rubino had to say to Flippy, if they spoke at all.

I can only hope that now, with Ferrari's car seeming to be on par to run at the front, that they fight for the championship, Alonso has a few problems, and Flippy loses the WDC by a few points he could have gotten today. That would be sweet.

I also wonder what if any words 9th place finisher M$ had for his old teammate this afternoon.

Weber proved he is shit unless he can lead from pole (or equivalet). Vettel screwed himself as usual.

McLaren could pull it out just by keeping out of the limelight and letting the others self-destruct.

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Could someone explain to me how similar cars are supposed to overtake each other?

Except with rare occurrences, there has been no overtaking of similar paced cars for the last 12 years. And, as proved by McLaren and Red Bull this season, if anyone tries, it usually ends up with a collision.

Now of course, if the FIA were to remove the advertising hoardings attached to the rear of today's cars, you might get slightly more overtaking opportunities, ah, just seen the flaw in my argument, remove advertising?? will never happen.

Danny Boy wrote:... just seen the flaw in my argument, remove advertising?? will never happen.

I've said for years the only hope is for the current structure to self-destruct. Only then could something re-emerge out of the ashes that resembles the seat-of-the-pants innovation of the '60s and '70s.

It did start out as a cottage industry. It needs to get back to it's roots.

I missed the race, as usual for this season. The highpoint of this season for me was meeting everyone in Montreal. I might have to try that again next year. Anyone game?

eso

I'm in. You need to stay for more than 15 minutes next time.

Or I would say we should all go to Lime Rock for ALMS. Much more user friendly. Chris got 3 laps in a BMW x5 at qually on Friday, as a passanger driven by a Skip Barber instructor (think Sabine in the Nordschlife).

Also- Pabs, Northcoast and who knows who else might show up? And no sketchy immigration issues for me, lol.

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Haha, I will probably show up next year. That's a promise!

As for the race, what can I say...I think Stefano was weak and gave the order to let Alonso through after his incessant whining. By lap 22 he was already on the radio talking about how ridiculous it was that Felipe was not letting him through and he was having to try to overtake him (God forbid!!!!).

Danny, I agree with your point regarding overtaking, but the fact of the matter is that if Alonso was really faster, then he should have been able to overtake Felipe. That's Ferrari's excuse and surely a double world champion has enough skill to overtake another car on the track.

Now the penalty is a joke, it's a mockery of the sport and the regulations. Supposedly things at the FIA had changed with Todt at the helm but I don't see it yet. However, I will hold off until the WMSC reviews the matter to comment on that.

90% sure I will be at the Canadian GP again next year.

Danny Boy wrote:

Now of course, if the FIA were to remove the advertising hoardings attached to the rear of today's cars, you might get slightly more overtaking opportunities, ah, just seen the flaw in my argument, remove advertising?? will never happen.

How about diffrent sponsors for both cars? That way the teams will have to answer to the sponsors if they pull this sort of crap. Look at both NASCAR, and IndyCar. They have guys on the same team, but they don't piss races away.

TopContender wrote:

Danny Boy wrote:

Now of course, if the FIA were to remove the advertising hoardings attached to the rear of today's cars, you might get slightly more overtaking opportunities, ah, just seen the flaw in my argument, remove advertising?? will never happen.

How about diffrent sponsors for both cars? That way the teams will have to answer to the sponsors if they pull this sort of crap. Look at both NASCAR, and IndyCar. They have guys on the same team, but they don't piss races away.

Exactly!!

People make fun of Nascar, and ya it is a bit contrived, but its great to see team mates take each other out to win. I was thinking about the sponsorship aspect yesterday when Dick-onso was trying to rationalize it by saying he worked for a company and sponsors and they are beholden to them, blah, fucking blah, blah...lying son of a bitch...and nobody, but nobody can tell me he was not aware of Piquet/Briatore stunt in singapore.

The @3$%sucker would probably sell his mother to win a race...or worse.

BAT tried the different sponsor for their cars, got a slap from the FIA.

Indeed, Mosley and Bernie at the time were saying the spectators would be confused with the same team having two liveries. I liked the way BAT then took the piss out of it making the hideous half Lucky Strike half 555 cars.

As always, I was furious at the time with the stupidity of the FIA decision, taking spectators for idiots, and especially due to the fact that March had been running two liveries while Mosely ran that team.

In today's economical situation, it would be a great way for teams to actually get more sponsor money.

Danny Boy wrote:Could someone explain to me how similar cars are supposed to overtake each other?

Except with rare occurrences, there has been no overtaking of similar paced cars for the last 12 years. And, as proved by McLaren and Red Bull this season, if anyone tries, it usually ends up with a collision.

At Turkey this season, RBR knocked each other off, whilst Mac raced each other. Agreed, Jenson didn't overtake Lewis - but it was a thrilling few corners...more so, because it showed RBR how to do it correctly.

RBR have raced each other and lost points in the process - cue Horner's obvious vitriol at Ferrari's decision.
Mac have raced each other - and / but not lost any points - cue Whitmarsh's plan to hold private talks with Ferrari, to let them know his views on the team orders controversy that rocked the German Grand Prix. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85573

So...if two out of the top three TEAMS allow their drivers to race on track, why can't / won't Ferrari allow their drivers to race on-track...?

IMHO: I don't think that the FIA and Ferrari imagined for a moment that the fans and the media were going to be so outraged by this. During the race, there was NO notification that "manoeuvres between cars #7 & #8 are under investigation / will be investigated after the race". And, if someone had briefed Massa earlier with the "tell the world that it was YOUR decision" speech, a lot of this might have been avoided.

Unfortunately, the timing has also conspired against Ferrari - it was pretty much the anniversary of Massa's accident at Hungary 2009 - and as such would have been an excellent headline (Massa wins) with which to sell Sport's news. However, the chance to report / print that fact was cynically removed, but the opportunity to write a greater story was offered on a bloody great platter - eat-as-much-as-you-can styleé, ffuxache...!

How blinkered were Ferrari...? Massively.
To assume that we'd all "understand" blatant contravention of the rules, for the sake of a chance for Ferrari to win a WDC is naive at best, and arrogant at worst. Whilst RBR and Mac allow their drivers to race, at the expense of losing a WDC, Ferrari won't allow it. And THAT is what is so galling about this whole episode.

I hope that Rob Smedley keeps his job - but somehow I doubt that that is going to happen.

You know, all the spectators at Hockenheim should file a class action suit either against Bernie, FIA, or Ferrari to get there Money back and for damages as well, for wasted time fuel and whatever else they can think of for going to a contrived event. Any lawyers out there, Edith, is that feasible?

If Bernie's pocket book was directly affected than perhaps there would be change.