How about those America's Cup yachts?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Mon Sep 23 2013, 09:48

Anyone following the America's Cup this year?

Being a nerd, I'm into anything that pushes technology to extremes, and the current America's cup yachts are no exception: Carbon Fibre, wing-sailed, hydrofoiling speed machines. In some conditions they're traveling more than twice the wind speed, and making over 40 knots.



Unbelievably, the Oracle Team USA has been thwarting Team New Zealand for days now. Needing only one more victory to take the cup, at one time being up 8-1 due to a penalty that docked Oracle of it's first two race wins, now the score is 8-5. And the US team just keeps getting faster too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6dnOlE9sjk
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Mon Sep 23 2013, 19:26

They are fascinating boats, and the speeds they go at are incredible. That say, I hate Larry Ellison for ruining the America's Cup. I know I am probably old fashion, but for me this competition should be sailed with mono hulls and be about tactical match racing. They have pushed it so far now you even had one sailor die on the Artemis boat a while back.

All I want is for NZ to beat that shit who stole the America's Cup so we can get back to proper sailing. How frustrating it must have been for NZ on Saturday when they had the race and the cup won, but the time limit ran out with a couple of minutes to go. Aaargh!

But when you see these cats fly on their foils...wow!!!


Last edited by Henrik on Mon Sep 23 2013, 19:28; edited 1 time in total

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Mon Sep 23 2013, 19:26

Oh, and that penalty was a result of Oracle getting busted for cheating. They should have been disqualified...

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Gelert on Mon Sep 23 2013, 19:47

I caught a little bit on BBC News the other day.
They don't half get close to eachother - at MASSIVE speed differentials - and without brakes (in the traditional sense)...!
Nutters - but fair play to them.

Gelert
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 693
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 105
Location : South Sandwich Islands

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Tue Sep 24 2013, 01:30

Henrik wrote:.... I hate Larry Ellison for ruining the America's Cup. I know I am probably old fashion, but for me this competition should be sailed with mono hulls and be about tactical match racing...
It could easily be argued that the Australian team of 1983 ushered in the modern tech era of America's cup racing with their secretive "Winged Keel" that really helped the boat plane out better lowering the drag of the hull.
All I want is for NZ to beat that shit who stole the America's Cup so we can get back to proper sailing. How frustrating it must have been for NZ on Saturday when they had the race and the cup won, but the time limit ran out with a couple of minutes to go. Aaargh!

But when you see these cats fly on their foils...wow!!!
And then there's the court case of the sore loser Kiwis in 1988 where they exploited a rule loophole to force a challenge , lost, and then took the result into international court only to have the result on the water upheld.

But, ever since the Australian challenge in 1983 team's have been on increasing budgets and using tank time and lots of computers to refine the hydrodynamics of their boats, not unlike current formula one.

I do think your dismissal of Ellison is overly simplistic and not really well informed of the history that lead us to this point.

eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Tue Sep 24 2013, 06:51

Actually eso, my dislike for Ellison goes back much further than his involvement in the America's Cup.

I have been following America's Cup racing since 1974 which is about when I started sailing myself. I loved the sheer beauty of the J-Class yachts, but you are right that things have gotten out of control way before Ellison got involved. Through history there have been many cases with legal battles and then some teams trying out new technological breakthroughs as the limits of the rules are approached. Like F1.

There was the case in '88 when Conner was challenged by New Zealand and their Big Boat. He countered with a catamaran, and made the Kiwis look silly. It then seemed as if things had gotten a bit better, but the fighting between billionaires Bertarelli and Ellison has brought the thing to where it is today. Such is life...

As with any sport with lots of money, things tend to get out of hand. That said, I still think the current boats are incredible. With the win from yesterday, it really looks like Oracle might succeed in the most impressive comeback ever.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Tue Sep 24 2013, 06:57

And I'll agree about liking the sloops and old-school match racing.

I really loved watching the coverage of the 1987 cup from Freemantle. Serious heavy seas and heavy winds, sails torn apart, I believe a broken mast at one point. That was a good show.

Damn it henrik, I think you just pulled a spoiler on me. I've got today recorded, but I'm waiting for Jill for finish her TV time before I watch it. Having said that, not hearing about a Kiwi victory already had me thinking we've got another day of racing coming.

eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Tue Sep 24 2013, 14:02

Sorry for the spoiler, but then again I don't think I really gave anything away.

I have always loved sailing, particularly with old-school boats. I remember when I was around 20 my sister's husband had an old Norwegian all wood sailboat of about 12 meters. It was beautiful, with a particularly tall mast. Now the place we would sail in Sweden at the time was near the Newport of the Swedish west coast. All the rich guys with their exclusive one-off racers would be there showing off. We entered a popular race one summer not really expecting anything except a fun time and a couple of beers. We ended up tenth on scratch, with some 100 entries, beating almost all the modern racers with our 50 year old wood boat. It was amazing!

As far as catamarans go, my experience is limited to a Hobie 16 we had when I was a teenager. Loved sailing that thing as it was just so damn fast! Then I turned mostly to windsurfing instead though.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Wed Sep 25 2013, 07:00

That comeback is pretty unbelievable! They are now at 8-8 and the next race will be the final one. I wish I could watch it live, but that is not going to be possible.


_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Wed Sep 25 2013, 07:05

Henrik wrote:That comeback is pretty unbelievable! They are now at 8-8 and the next race will be the final one. I wish I could watch it live, but that is not going to be possible.

Yeah, it is pretty unbelievable. Oracle has the momentum, especially after losing the start on the 2nd race today and passing on the upwind leg ontheir way to a decisive victory.

Dean Barker and crew just have to be gutted at this point. Probably getting hate mail and death threats from home too

But love it or not, it's been one heck of a cup.

eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Wed Sep 25 2013, 07:08

Henrik wrote:That comeback is pretty unbelievable! They are now at 8-8 and the next race will be the final one.

Yeah, it is pretty unbelievable. Oracle has the momentum, especially after losing the start on the 2nd race today and passing on the upwind leg ontheir way to a decisive victory.

Dean Barker and crew just have to be gutted at this point. Probably getting hate mail and death threats from home too

But love it or not, it's been one heck of a cup.

eso

I wish I could watch it live, but that is not going to be possible.
There's an ap that has a live feed...

avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Wed Sep 25 2013, 07:32

Yeah, but I will be in a plane when the race is on... Maybe they have wifi?

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Thu Sep 26 2013, 02:12

Did you have a chance to follow the race Henrik?

I haven't seen it yet, but I followed the virtual race in real-time with the app. I taped it so I'll watch it after the kids go down for the night.


eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Thu Sep 26 2013, 02:14

No wifi on the plane, but having checked in to my hotel now in Miami I was able to check the results....

Well done Oracle for that amazing comeback. I still hate Larry Ellison though...

Now the question will be asked if there is anybody still around to put enough money up in order to challenge Oracle next time around. With only three challengers this time, and NZ pretty much saying they would not be around next time if they did not win, it will be interesting to see.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Thu Sep 26 2013, 02:18

I actually feel bad for the Kiwis. I bet they've gotten death threats. But as I said last night, the momentum was fully with Oracle.

And then the cynic in me wonders how much it cost to buy that one and how much the wager was and at what odds...

eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Danny Boy on Thu Sep 26 2013, 11:15

eso wrote:I actually feel bad for the Kiwis.
eso
Never feel sorry for the Kiwis, always remember they speared Brian O'Driscoll in the British Lions Tour and could have put him in a wheelchair for life.

Henrik, the comeback of the year was the European Golf Team in the Ryder Cup earlier this year.

The americans won because the has an English genius plotting the race strategy (even if it did take the septics 4 races to realise that the English are always best).
avatar
Danny Boy
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 488
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Thu Sep 26 2013, 13:31

Well, I do follow a number of sports, but I have to admit that golf is not really one of them. So I am afraid I missed the Ryder Cup comeback...

As to the English being the best, well it does seem to me that over the past 10 or 15 years the Kiwis have totally dominated the America's Cup. When Switzerland won it was with a Kiwi crew, and I believe the CEO of the Oracle team is Russel Coutts, the same guy who won the Cup for the Kiwis, then switched side and won it for the Swiss. Now he has been on the winning American team.

That said, Oracle did start winning when they put the Brit in place...

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Danny Boy on Thu Sep 26 2013, 13:39

Henrik wrote:Well, I do follow a number of sports, but I have to admit that golf is not really one of them. So I am afraid I missed the Ryder Cup comeback...

It really was an incredibile last day, I am not a big fan of watching golf, but I was just sitting there and could not believe what I was seeing, even my wife stayed up till 3am watching it finish


That said, Oracle did start winning when they put the Brit in place...
Ben Ainslie is a star for me, watching him in the Olympics and his aggressive style and tactics was great, he should be a Millwall supporter.

I preferred the America's Cup when the Swiss were winning, I love the fact that a land-locked country was showing some of the best teams in the world how it should be done.

BTW, did you vote for continuing with conscription?
avatar
Danny Boy
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 488
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Thu Sep 26 2013, 18:24

Agreed about the Swiss showing how it should be done. Actually I was more impressed with the UBS boat in the Volvo Ocean race since the crew there had a number of Swiss sailors (and there are some good ones). Alinghi on the other hand was basically an all Kiwi crew with billionaire Bertarelli riding along for good measure.

As to voting, well I am not Swiss and so can't vote. I know Sweden has already abolished the mandatory military service, but they are now really struggling to get people to join the army. So, if anybody is listening and wants to invade Sweden, now would be a good time....

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Gelert on Thu Sep 26 2013, 20:43

Henrik wrote:So, if anybody is listening and wants to invade Sweden, now would be a good time....
Not really.
It's just got dark, and my dinner's on the table.
Shame.
Another time maybe...

Gelert
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 693
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 105
Location : South Sandwich Islands

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Henrik on Sat Sep 28 2013, 00:28

Oh well, maybe in the morning then...

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1340
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by TopContender on Sun Sep 29 2013, 06:24

Ok what did Oracle do to their boat? I'm sorry, but flipping crew members will not change the series that significantly.
avatar
TopContender
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 609
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by eso on Sun Sep 29 2013, 07:09

TopContender wrote:Ok what did Oracle do to their boat? I'm sorry, but flipping crew members will not change the series that significantly.
I don't know. What do F1 teams do to their cars between P1 Friday and Qualifying?

A cup yacht is highly tunable, and with the foiling there are minute adjustments that can seriously reduce drag. I also notice that through the series the Oracle team was making great strides in the quality of their jibing, keeping on the foils the entire time which means they are carrying more speed through every manouvre.

But, are implying they were cheating?


eso
avatar
eso
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 475
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 58
Location : Long Beach, California, USA

http://www.esodesignstudio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Danny Boy on Sun Sep 29 2013, 07:27

eso wrote:
TopContender wrote:Ok what did Oracle do to their boat? I'm sorry, but flipping crew members will not change the series that significantly.
I don't know. What do F1 teams do to their cars between P1 Friday and Qualifying?

A cup yacht is highly tunable, and with the foiling there are minute adjustments that can seriously reduce drag.

eso
The Oracle fitted a computer to make these adjustments (in micro seconds compared to minutes when done manually) after the 4th race, this is the protest/complaint.
avatar
Danny Boy
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 488
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by TopContender on Mon Sep 30 2013, 03:05

I figured they legally changed a part of the boat that made a huge difference in that water.
avatar
TopContender
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 609
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: How about those America's Cup yachts?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum