Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Fri May 13 2011, 16:56

Having become a real fan of The Ben back in his WSBK days, and the epic fights he hide with Haga as he went on to win his world title, I really expected him to excel in MotoGP. It is true that often WSBK riders struggle a bit more coming in to MotoGP, perhaps more so than riders that came out of 250cc, but Ben really looked to be the one. His first year riding the Tech3 Yamaha certainly lived up to the hopes I had in him, and he had some outstanding races with the second tier Yamaha.

But now that Rossi has moved to Ducati, and Ben got the second factory bike, I really thought he would always be fighting for a win. I hoped that he would outclass Lorenzo on the other bike partly because I really can’t stand Lorenzo anymore and partly because I really felt that Lorenzo had somehow been able to benefit from bike development carried out by Rossi. It’s just not happening though.

In all the races this year he has to me been less competitive than what he was on the Tech3 bike, and I really don’t get it. Instead I have to say that Cal Crutchlow who took over Ben’s bike at Tech3 has been more impressive so far. If we look back over the last few years, Lorenzo was always closer to Rossi (and ended up beating him) than what Ben has been to Lorenzo this year.

Could it be that the bike development in the factory team is being more driven by Jorge now, and this does not suit Ben’s riding style? I suppose that would make sense since Jorge really is riding like a 250cc rider, with very high corner speeds and crazy angles. Ben has a little bit more of a 4 stroke style, depending on the muscle to get out of the corner more (not that Jorge is any slouch getting on the gas either!). Maybe he can’t totally get his head around depending so much on the front that you really need to, and can do in MotoGP as opposed to WSBK.

Whatever it is, I hope he gets it sorted soon. I want him to be ahead of Jorge, and consequently the number 1 Yamaha rider. If not, his career in MotoGP will not last very long as there is a long line of prospects to take over his ride, and I have no doubt that Eugene Laverty scored some serious points for his own future last weekend in Monza…

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Revs on Sun May 15 2011, 14:33

wth is up with simoncelli!?

devestating,, just gutting!
avatar
Revs
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 456
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by TopContender on Sun May 15 2011, 17:08

That move was insane. You would think that a guy that was getting that much heat would not pull such a stunt. Plus he took out a factory rider.

If Dani can't comeback what does Honda do? The fastest non factory Honda rider is Simoncelli! Talk about an awkward decision.
avatar
TopContender
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 609
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Sun May 15 2011, 21:39

Actually, in spite of the San Carlo livery, Sic's bike is a factory bike already.

I thought his move was a bit bone headed, trying to past on the outside and then cutting in, and was furious at the moment. However, in seeing the reruns, it wasn't that bad. Dani saw him coming, and should have gotten on the brakes earlier. It was a tough move, but did not deserve a ride through.

Also, Jorge's pass on Dovi was exactly like the sort of thing he is always crying about. Certainly made him look like a cry baby.

Rossi was pretty impressive, but let's face it he should not have had that podium if it wasn't for the Sic-Pedrosa incident and subsequent ride throughfor Sic.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Revs on Mon May 16 2011, 06:51

yeah Lorenzo should be very quiet from now on...

but as much as pedrosa mightve gone a little fraction wide, its to be expected when making a pass down the inside... simoncelli has to wait before he can assume to turn in... i thought he trecherously turned a blind eye to the difficulties he was committed to serving up to pedrosa... reckless doesnt cut it, it was utterly contemptuous at best... he should be sat on his arse for a few rounds... shouldve been black flagged rather than get a drive through too... when youre on the outside your line is dictated by the guy on the inside... like vettel vs webber at turkey a year ago... vettel just drove straight into webber like he wasnt there... its wrong.
avatar
Revs
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 456
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Mon May 16 2011, 08:06

I don't know Revs. If Sic would have struggled to keep that line at that speed through the corner I would agree, but as it turns out he was clean past, had no problem to put his bike in the corner and get through the corner. I think Pedrosa pannicked, hit his front brake lifting the bike up and making him go straight. If he would have stuck to his line he would have made it clean through as well, only behind Sic.

For sure it was a bit of a rough move, but I really don't believe in penalizing it. I would say the stuff it up the inside pass like Lorenzo did on Dovi, and that has become pretty common these days especially by the likes of Rossi, is perhaps worst. They basically can't keep the line on the inside, but push up against another rider to help them around messing up the line for the other rider while they are at it.

I would call Simoncelli's pass more as a block pass like we see commonly in motocross, and a hell of a gutsy move to pull of where he did it. But on the moment, as I said before, it looked bad and I was mad at him. Now I think differently. Simoncelli did not ride in to Pedrosa, it was Pedrosa who pannicked and rode in to Simoncelli.

(I am sorry for not being familiar with your example from Turkey F1 from last year...but if Vettel was on the outside and tried a pass on Webber and turn in to him it is not the same as what we saw yesterday.)

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Revs on Mon May 16 2011, 09:06

i think its debatable that Simo was even making the corner,,, pedrosa made the pass, and Simo went over the top trying to stick it around the outside... he needed to bite the bullet... he was doing more than just trying to pass, he was trying to stuff pedrosa up aswell... doing something he's obviously very familiar with and finds difficult to refuse himself of... done it to lorenzo this year and no doubt found it very effective against riders that are more easily intimidated in the past... against the top flight of guys that we are lucky to have on the track at the same time, it ends up with broken bones.

pedrosa wouldve had to start braking before simoncelli came into his periferals to avoid that line... its not possible to share the track with someone thats prepared to make contact...

i still want Simo to do well, he's otherwise a top bloke and extremely competitive, but he's gotta stop chopping noses asap... he completely stripped pedrosa of his room for error and now the guys gone back a year and a half healthwise... its not fair...

this will really hurt Simo regardless... but he's gotta go back and break a few more eggs before he trys to serve up such a tasty omelette.... because if he chops a single nother nose off again, it'll be insta-ban territory...
avatar
Revs
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 456
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Gelert on Mon May 16 2011, 09:52

http://mag.gpweek.com/

...not just 4-wheeled stuff...! Very Happy

Gelert
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 692
Join date : 2009-08-02
Age : 105
Location : South Sandwich Islands

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by PLAYLIFE on Tue May 17 2011, 04:15

I thought Super Sic's move was a bit optmistic but he's done it so often in the past that I thought he was good for it as he usually makes it stick. He outbraked Pedrosa but Pedrosa probably didn't anticipate Sic trying that kind of move (despite it being almost his signature move).

I did feel very bad for Pedrosa.

I was very surprised that Sic was penalised, I don't ever remember that happening before and I thought it was plain stupid. The reason for the penalty was an 'illegal manoeuvre'. What the hell does that mean? Where is that written in the regulations?

Other than that, happy to see Vale on the podium, even though it required a few to drop by the way side, but he did beat Lorenzo so it was a good performance none the less.

avatar
PLAYLIFE
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Revs on Tue May 17 2011, 13:50

when there is consensus, they can make the rules up as they go along, basically.... Lorenzo put his hand up and called foul, and the debate started... the debate ended when Marco snotted Pedrosa... i love aggression on track, but nothing more than racing for position... trying to stuff someone up aswell is extremely aggravating to say the least... you need to develop trust with those around you on track with every action you make, never undermine it... Marco hasnt done himself any favours... the championship is already falling to pieces and its only a handful of rounds in...

all this stuff is a total piss off... i'm starting to see its becoming more n more like all the bad bits of F1 too now...
avatar
Revs
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 456
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Tue May 17 2011, 15:44

We have complained for years about the political crap in F1 and the FIA, and the thing is there are riders/managers who are trying to play political games in MotoGP as well. So far it has not been too disruptive, even though it has never been very far away. The biggest problem today is with the Dorna and how they like to try and make things go the way they want to see them go. Clearly Rossi has obtained some huge favours over the years, with a level of leniency that may have gone too far in some cases. As late as last Sunday he did end up passing Dovi under a yellow flag, but there was no penalty distributed (okay, perhaps the stewards missed it, but I really doubt that).

Now we have Puig who is still trying to run the Honda team for his “boy” Pedrosa and who is extremely close to the Dorna. Lorenzo, also a Spaniard, has been able to get the Dorna fully in his pocket as well. These two are starting to complain more and more, and with the force of the Dorna behind them they are starting to really get their way.

Lorenzo has been complaining about Simoncelli for some time now, and it really pisses me off because Lorenzo is certainly no better. He just feels that as world champion he is obviously above everybody else so nobody should get in his way. If they do, then he has the right to barge his way past them. But if anybody else shows a bit of aggressive riding…boohoo!! He really is being a bit of a brat about it, and the thing is he has a long history of aggressive riding, to the point of receiving race suspensions (thanks to Pedrosa/Puig and their stronger connection to the Dorna…). His pas on Dovi on Sunday was if anything more aggressive than anything Simoncelli has done all year.

So, having already been noted in the Dorna’s black book, Simoncelli was indeed riding a bit on thin ice. Then he goes and scares Pedrosa with an opportunistic pass, and obviously Puig complains, with the end result as we know.

I certainly hope this will not make Simoncelli back off. We need a character like him on the track to spice things up. For sure Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Stoner are brilliant riders, and they can be awesome to watch, but they lack the flair on track that Rossi and Simoncelli have.

Racing is supposed to be hard, and it is supposed to close. It is also supposed to be about trusting the other rider as you say Revs, and if Pedrosa had trusted Simoncelli he would have been through the corner fine, just behind him.

If you have ever watched Haga racing in WSBK you will know what it looks like when a rider has complete trust in the other riders. He is always going so close to the guy in front it’s scary. You will also see it often in the BSB between the riders there, and I have to say that Cal Crutchlow has taken that habit with him. The Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa trio don’t seem to have the same sort of attitude and trust of the riders around them in that sense. Instead they get upset when somebody comes too close.

I feel bad for Pedrosa braking his collar bone, but I do not feel that Simoncelli is responsible. I’m really hoping that the penalty will not get him to “clean up” his act, and I really doubt it given his history of “reckless” riding in the lower classes. It still cracks me up when I think of the WSBK race he did with Aprilia as team mate to Biaggi, and he passed Biaggi in a rather opportunistic way through the last chicane. Afterwards he “apologized” saying he didn’t really mean to pass Biaggi (the team leader) there, but he had messed up his braking a little bit coming in to the chicane.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Revs on Tue May 17 2011, 16:43

yeah theyre all just a little bit crazy... and thats the way we love em... and i totally agree on the trust thing... just have to look at the way casey drops back early every single time on the forming lap... either he's superstitious, looking to find 'his thang', or he doesnt trust the riders not to run into him on that lap...

i think the incident is less important than the buildup, to Simoncelli... and maybe he's ruing brushing off that safety meeting... i personally dont like racing with people that dont leave me any room for me to make a mistake... and that i think that sums up the incident pretty well... not enough room effectively, and Marco had Pedrosa sighted way better than Pedrosa had him sighted... ... the drama-influence is something Simoncelli mightve handled differently,, before it got more serious.

if he is able to make his case with the video footage and stem some of the heat (if it comes to that) - if there's a measure [of] racing incident that returns to it - then i hope he's able to do that and get on with the racing... otherwise i reckon he's got a long year ahead him... regardless, he has a long way to go without another of the same sort of contacts.
avatar
Revs
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 456
Join date : 2009-08-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Tue May 17 2011, 18:48

Which brings us back to my origonal question...what the hell is up with Spies?

Is Yamaha suffering in their bike development by not having Rossi and his whole entourage to bring things forward, and even though Jorge can still manage to keep the bike up front it looks like things are not improving. Perhaps the Tech 3 guys listen a bit more to their riders (Colin is great at bike development) which is helping Cal get up front as well.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by TopContender on Wed May 18 2011, 03:14

It will be interesting to see what Jorge can do without Rossi directing the team.
avatar
TopContender
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 609
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by PLAYLIFE on Wed May 18 2011, 04:05

As for Lorenzo and Simoncelli in Valencia last year, in my view, it was totally Lorenzo's fault. Sic was past, Lorenzo touched the back of Simoncelli.
avatar
PLAYLIFE
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 439
Join date : 2010-07-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Wed May 18 2011, 08:18

Totally agree with you Playlife. If however you want to find incidents where Sic was at fault, there were quite a number of them back in his 250 days. He certainly has created a reputation for being a bit reckless, something that is not helping his case now that the Dorna babies are beginning to cry...

As to your question TC, it may be that we are already seeing the effect. Although there is generally a power shift between manufacturers from one season to another, the Yamaha certainly is not looking as fast as it did in the past. Honda is clearly at the top, and I believe the Rossi team is slowly getting the Ducati to get better.

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by H8R on Tue May 24 2011, 00:15

Henrik...about your origonal question...

Let me just say that there is some shit going on at Yamaha. The people I know who are directly connected to The Ben won't say.

Ben's season starts at the Gran Premi Aperol de Catalunya.
avatar
H8R
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : Encinitas, California

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Henrik on Wed May 25 2011, 08:25

Thanks H8R, but now you have either said too much or too little!

If the people you know at Yamaha won't say what's up, waterboard them!

_________________

Good motor racing still exists today; it's just not called F1.
avatar
Henrik
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 1337
Join date : 2009-08-01
Age : 52
Location : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by TopContender on Wed May 25 2011, 13:14

That or grab an extra car battery, jumper cables, and attach it to their nuts.
avatar
TopContender
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 609
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by H8R on Sat Jun 11 2011, 17:15

Funny isn't it. Ben signs a new contract and the very next day he's on the podium. Let me say that it wasn't Ben that stepped up his game.

Rumor of Jorge not being happy with Ben's pace is starting to seem justified. Anyone wondering if Ben has been getting the same kit as Jorge?

LOL...me thinks Jorge is bummed
avatar
H8R
Killer Whale
Killer Whale

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-08-02
Location : Encinitas, California

Back to top Go down

Re: Le Mans MotoGP - and What The Hell Is Up With Spies?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum