MotoGP Becoming F1

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MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Mon Mar 07 2011, 09:10

This is something that I have been mentioning for some time, and there are yet further signs now that MotoGP is indeed trying to become some sort of F1 on two wheels. What is sad about this is that it is really a derogatory remark, whereas it should be a compliment. As much as F1 truly once was the pinnacle of motorsports, it has become a commercial business whose primary objective is to serve as a support to advertisement. The “sport” part of it has taken a secondary role, and this seems to be happening with MotoGP as well.

So what has happened now to get me all upset? I have spoken before about how the Dorna have put in place their VIP paddock area, and how the ever rising costs to develop the latest electronic riding aid has driven most teams out of the sport. Last year it was really down to maybe six bikes and riders that could possibly win a race, the rest of the ever shrinking field of some 16 or 17 riders just there to try and get some points for their sponsors. Yet, the top riders in MotoGP really are something else, and there were a number of great fights between them throughout the races. For sure, some races turned out particularly boring (especially when compared to the Moto2 races), but as we reached the end of the season things really did seem to look up. There was the shakeup of riders and teams, with Vale going to Ducati and Stoner to Honda being the really big news, and we were seeing Spies really beginning to emerge as well as Simoncelli who was finally getting the hang of the MotoGP bike. So what then has now messed up all these hopes for a brilliant 2011?

Well, if the winter testing is anything to go by, this will be a championship for Honda, with the other teams lining up on the grid just to fill the holes. Seriously, the Hondas have dominated in testing, and not just by a little bit. And the reason for this domination seems to be some new sort of seamless shifting gearbox device.

The FIM, worried about the rising costs etc., had modified the rules to ban double-clutch gearbox solutions thinking this would solve the potential problem. A bit like a typical FIA decision, they didn’t think things through though. Loopholes were left in the rules, and now it appears that Honda has developed a solution which produces the same result as a double-clutch system, without using a double clutch. Like we have seen year after year in F1, when they make a new rule to ban some sort of development, there will always be one team to figure out how to bend the rules to the limit, so as to get the desired result in any case. What then happens is that the other teams typically begin to complain about cheating, trying to protest, and all the while frantically trying to reproduce the same solution themselves.

There is hope for next year though as the new rules regulating the engines will kick in. These have been designed to seriously try and hold back the spending, and even though I am not convinced how well they will actually work, I am hoping that they are effective. As for this year, I suppose that our salvation will come through the fierce battle that the Honda riders will wage. Because as much as Honda seems to be emulating certain F1 teams in sneak developing borderline technical solutions, they still tend to never favour just one rider. For Honda, it is the bikes that win, not the rider. So with a line-up of Stoner, Pedrosa and Dovizioso on factory bikes, as well as Simoncelli on what will probably be an under-cover factory bike, you can expect the fight to be intense.


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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Gelert on Mon Mar 07 2011, 10:53

At least Honda aren't favouring the Ferrari-model of team orders it seems...

The FIM should seek to adopt moveable rear wings and artificially wet tracks, all rounded-off with a Medals system of course - that's where the action is... Rolling Eyes

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Mon Mar 07 2011, 13:15

ROFL!!!

Give them time, they will get there...

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Revs on Mon Mar 07 2011, 13:23

honda has been the leader for decades really... but it's definitely annoying that the spirit of the law is circumvented as a given these days,, not just in any sport, but in any profession... with the modern era so focused on the technical, any given set of problems can be overcome by a technical solution... whether it be trading carbon and polluting as per normal, or using any and everything but officially banned substances to unnaturally improve performance on an athletics field... winning at all costs... making millions of dollars and then griping about paying taxes and going off to tax free havens...

greed is the big winner these days.
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by gueuzeman on Mon Mar 07 2011, 13:35

I'm not sure it's fair to blame F1. I seems this type of approach/thinking is applied to every facet of life these days. More a condition of the species and society than a motorsports issue.

I'm sure there are banned hockey sticks made of carbon fiber with flexible blades that snap the puck faster....

Everyone loves a virgin, but quickly starts thinking about how much money could be made prostituting it as a virgin....

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by gueuzeman on Mon Mar 07 2011, 13:36

Or... what Revs said.

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Mon Mar 07 2011, 16:59

I suppose it comes across as if I am blaming F1, but I am not really. I agree, this sort of thing happens pretty much everywhere and in any sport.

What bothers me is the Dorna are F1 wannabees. They look to F1 as their role model, and strive to be on the same level. When you take a flawed role model, well then you typically end up with a flawed product.

But in this instance, it is true that it is really Honda that is trying to push the limits, but then they have always been doing that. Sometimes the FIM have nipped them in the bud, and sometimes all the other manufacturers have followed suite. I think this time the others will just bring out their solutions as quickly as possible, draining more money...

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Gelert on Mon Mar 07 2011, 19:54

I know diddly-squat about the FIM / Motorbikes.

However - I suspect that Honda are still "smarting" after paying-out all of that money - for and into F1 research - only to pull-out at the worst possible time...
...don't forget that Brawn GP won both the F1 WDC and WCC using Honda's pre-season designs and manufacturing infrastructure.

Ross et al came along - only after Honda had put-in-place the car / infrastructure / basic design - and not only kept a defunct, but-only-on-paper team afloat, but also won two F1 World Championships off the back of what they'd only effectively "inherited".

Therefore Honda will surely now go with the "uber-technology-angle" whilst it's still available - in the hope that they might get the WDC / WCC, via whatever discipline they enter - so as to make amends for their "F1" fuck-up.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch - everybody is looking for the perfect virgin, but nobody wants to commit to financing one unless he / she / it has been road-tested - which rather buggers-up the supply-chain...

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by gueuzeman on Mon Mar 07 2011, 23:30

It works for Richard Branson.

What a Face

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Wed Mar 09 2011, 07:29

They've been showing some classic MotoGP races recently, some from the 1979 season. It's much the same as it is now, probably even worse, with only a few riders capable of winning, on only one or two different bike manufacturers. In recent years we have been lucky to have Honda, Yamaha and Ducati mixing it up a bit, with mutliple riders. I think we're a little spoilt now and come to expect too much, similarly in F1 having mutliple drivers all with decent chances of taking a race win on ever given weekend.
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Wed Mar 09 2011, 08:07

I know you are right Playlife, and I have been saying for a few years now that we are watching the best bike racing in history. Twenty years from now people will still be talking about the racing at the beginning of the century.

But, my problem is the excess in money and technology that is taking over. Oh, and the efforts being made to make it all the more exclusive.

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Thu Mar 10 2011, 03:16

Henrik wrote:But, my problem is the excess in money and technology that is taking over. Oh, and the efforts being made to make it all the more exclusive.


Yeh and fair enough too, I think the same. I think the exclusitivty is happening in, or creeping into, many sports at the highest level, not just F1/MotoGP. Of course motorsport is a special case, because of the technology factor and the amount of money that is required for the equipment.

In cricket for instance, what I consider to be 'proper' cricket (test matches) is slowly becoming less and less popular with the advent of the '1-day' game and in the last decade now 20-20 is taking off. There is very little similar between 20-20 and test matches. It's made purely for the entertainment factor, the 'general viewer'. They've rigged up all these silly rules like limitations of fielders for a certain amount of overs, called 'powerplays' etc. I'd liken it to making the 24 Hours of Le Mans a 15 minute sprint.
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by gueuzeman on Thu Mar 10 2011, 05:24

[quote]I'd liken it to making the 24 Hours of Le Mans a 15 minute sprint.[/quot

Thanks, because otherwise I would have had no frame of reference for you comments were about .
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Fri Mar 11 2011, 03:54

[quote="gueuzeman"]
I'd liken it to making the 24 Hours of Le Mans a 15 minute sprint.[/quot

Thanks, because otherwise I would have had no frame of reference for you comments were about .


Wink

Basically cricket was originally (and still is) in the form of 'test matches' - a 5 day game where both sides bat twice (if all goes to plan). Teams can bat as long as they can or like. Obviously highest score wins.

In the 70s, they created 'one dayers' which as the name implies, goes for 1 day. Each side is limited to 50 overs each. Each match goes for abour 3.5 hours per team, so a total of 7 hours.

Then of recent times, they invented 20-20 which is 20 overs a team. So the full match goes for about 3 hours. There are practically no tactics or strategy involved because it is purely a slogging match.

Test match is the purest form, it takes very high levels of concentration, strategy and tactics. Imagine standing out in the field in a 40C day for 8 hours! Or as a batter, having a 150km/hr projectile thrown at you for hour after hour.


They created the shorter version because the 'general public' may watch it. No 'general public' will watch a 5 day game (circa 40 hours) which results in a draw.

So they've changed the sport to accomodate the TV viewer. They've changed the sport so that non-enthusiasts will watch it. Who cares about enthusiasts as they're the minority. Mad


Last edited by PLAYLIFE on Fri Mar 11 2011, 06:03; edited 1 time in total
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by gueuzeman on Fri Mar 11 2011, 04:45

Well, this makes perfect sense. And I hope they have also programmed in commercial breaks, so I can use the loo, get a fresh VB from the eskie, and step outside for a smoko.

Umm, I mean be programmed to buy the goods of the sponsors, which are some toilet parer, beer, and cigarette hawkers.

Rolling Eyes

EDIT- excuse my snark, but it sounds like they're 'Americanizing" it for the short attention span viewer.
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Fri Mar 11 2011, 06:05

gueuzeman wrote:Well, this makes perfect sense. And I hope they have also programmed in commercial breaks, so I can use the loo, get a fresh VB from the eskie, and step outside for a smoko.

Umm, I mean be programmed to buy the goods of the sponsors, which are some toilet parer, beer, and cigarette hawkers.

Rolling Eyes

EDIT- excuse my snark, but it sounds like they're 'Americanizing" it for the short attention span viewer.

lol

There's one advertisement between overs, every over. It last for about 30 seconds. An over will last only about 7-10 minutes. So they have a field day advertising!
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Fri Mar 11 2011, 08:00

How the hell did we come to compare motorcycle racing to cricket? I am not sure I can think of two more different sports....

But yeah, I see your point Playlife.

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Gelert on Fri Mar 11 2011, 13:37

Henrik wrote:How the hell did we come to compare motorcycle racing to cricket? I am not sure I can think of two more different sports....
Cricket explained: You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.

When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game.


There's pads and gloves and helmets and spinners and no-balls...
And High-Sides and Low-Sides versus Short Mid-Off, Long Off and Long Stop...and Silly Mid Off...

All-in-all, pretty identical.

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Sat Mar 12 2011, 01:35

LOL nice one Gelert.

Sorry for the tangent hijack Henrik!

So back to the bikes - Qatar this week! Will any of you attend a MotoGP race this year?


Last edited by PLAYLIFE on Tue Mar 15 2011, 00:42; edited 1 time in total
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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by Henrik on Sat Mar 12 2011, 10:19

Well yeah, Greg and I are flying to Qatar on Tuesday. It will be out first night race!!

After that, I am looking more at attending a WSBK race or two. I would like to go to Aragon actually. Looks like a nice track.

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Re: MotoGP Becoming F1

Post by PLAYLIFE on Tue Mar 15 2011, 00:44

Stoner fastest again, looks ominous for the non-Hondas this year...
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