How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

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How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Fri Nov 05 2010, 19:43

Both RBR's looking good on both tyre-types during FP1 & 2.
Nando and Fellipe both had technical issues, but nothing disastrous - and both are also on the pace.
Lewis is very much in the mix and looking comfortable - Jenson less so.
Bobby is due a good result, and is also up there at the top of the time sheets.

Rain expected for qually - but a dry race is predicted.

Race predictions? RBR 1 & 2. Nando or Lewis, possibly Bobby 3rd.

I also predict that next year there will be a Team Lotus on the grid - but perhaps not the one we're currently seeing...

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by gueuzeman on Sat Nov 06 2010, 02:47

Well, I hope the good guys win, whoever that is.

This time slot will completely mess with my sunday schedule, hope i get t watch it.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by gueuzeman on Sat Nov 06 2010, 14:01

Massa could be arrested for fraud if he helps Alonso win- I like this!!

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/breaking/prosecutor-massa-can-be-jailed-if-he-accepts-team-orders-to-help-alonso-win-f1-title-106791653.html?utm_source=feedburner+dcexaminer%2Fbreaking&utm_medium=feed+Breaking+News&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dcexaminer%2Fbreaking+%28Breaking+News%29feed&utm_content=feed&utm_term=feed


SAO PAULO — A Brazilian prosecutor warned Felipe Massa that he could be arrested and sentenced to up to six years in prison if he takes team orders to help Ferrari teammate Fernando Alonso win the Formula One title.

Massa could be charged with fraud if he allows Alonso to pass him or if he does anything else that would somehow alter the result Sunday at in Interlagos, according to prosecutor Paulo Castilho, known for taking up sports causes in Brazil.

"Massa or any other driver who does anything to fraud the result of the race can be arrested and formally charged," Castilho told The Associated Press on Thursday. "It doesn't mean that it will happen, it will be up to the local authority in charge of the event to decide whether the law has been broken."


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/breaking/prosecutor-massa-can-be-jailed-if-he-accepts-team-orders-to-help-alonso-win-f1-title-106791653.html?utm_source=feedburner+dcexaminer%2Fbreaking&utm_medium=feed+Breaking+News&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dcexaminer%2Fbreaking+%28Breaking+News%29feed&utm_content=feed&utm_term=feed#ixzz14VU9PzqZ
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Sat Nov 06 2010, 18:57

Yeah - I read the news at http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/05112010/58/massa-threatened-jail-team-orders.html I couldn't believe some of the comments posted there on their Forum...it made The Dive seem tame and sane...LOL


Qually: GREAT JOB by The Hulk. I am SO pleased for Willy's - a great team steeped in the spirit of the sport, but with bugger-all to show for their dedication and enthusiasm in the last few years.
I hope that this enables Williams to gain the sponsorship necessary for 2011, to enable the team to race NON-pay-drivers. Rubens and Nico are a great pairing for the team - whereas Pastor Maldonado is only a GP2 Champion by dint of his longevity in that series, plus the personal sponsorship that got him into a top GP2 Team in the first place.

And, lest I forget, a GREAT result for COSWORTH... Basketball

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by gueuzeman on Sat Nov 06 2010, 22:23

I only managed to catch the last 2 min. of Q3, and was shocked to see Nico on top. Well done. A call to eso did indicate that he was helped by improving conditions on a late run, but still the car must be good ad RB and Mac and Ferrari would have been out late as well?

Good to see Reubens do well, Bruno Senna in last isn't so good for the home fans, and Massa looks too far back to help Nando, which will keep him out of jail.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Sun Nov 07 2010, 10:57

I don't have Eso's 'phone number - so I have to watch the TV. Sad

Nico set a time on his second-last lap that was still good enough for pole, and then topped it on his last lap. Everybody else was on the same Options at the time. The difference seems to be that Nico was aggressive and kept temperature in his tyres - even raising the temperatures during his hard out-lap and then his 3 flying laps.

Bigger cojones perhaps...?

Meanwhile, Jenson plus his entourage were attacked by armed robbers as he left the circuit after qually. His Police-trained Driver managed to get their car through the traffic and away to safety without incident. Rumours that members of the gang included Jacques Villeneuve and Nelson Piquet Junior, and were after Jenson's race seat, are believed to be wide of the mark.

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by eso on Sun Nov 07 2010, 20:30

Well, it was more interesting than the other races I managed to see this season. Good to see RedBull not monkeying with their drivers yet.

A flawless day for Vettel.

As much as I dislike Freddy, he is good and put in a pretty good drive today.

So it all goes down to Yaz Marina. Fun, fun, fun.

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by TopContender on Mon Nov 08 2010, 00:17

I don't know what Red Bull was thinking, but if Ferrari are going to apply team rules, they should repay the favor. I might be against the action, but if one guy is willing to go to that level, the other team should react.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Danny Boy on Mon Nov 08 2010, 04:22

For me, as there is so little overtaking in today's F1, I think that cars behind a safety car, should line up in race order. This at least might have given us something to look at, rather than watch the fist 4 laps then wait for breakdowns or accidents to change the order.

All in all, today showed what is still wrong with F1, it is so predictable after the first few laps.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Mon Nov 08 2010, 20:04

TopContender wrote:I don't know what Red Bull was thinking, but if Ferrari are going to apply team rules, they should repay the favor. I might be against the action, but if one guy is willing to go to that level, the other team should react.
Scenario @ Yas Marina - 1 lap to go, Seb V leading Webbo, with Nando in 3rd.
Seb V lets Webbo take the win, and Webbo gets the WDC.
Team Orders are deployed but RBR get no penalty.
RBR show Ferrari how and when to deploy Team Orders - that don't cost US$thousands and don't piss-off fans.
Cha'mone Mo Fo...

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by TopContender on Tue Nov 09 2010, 00:10

If Alonso gets 4th or better i think he automatically gets the title.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by da silva on Tue Nov 09 2010, 03:10

TopContender wrote:If Alonso gets 4th or better i think he automatically gets the title.

Nope, he has to finish second.

Here's hoping for a red bull 1-2! I don't care who wins as long as it's not the cheats, Ferrari and Alonso.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by PLAYLIFE on Tue Nov 09 2010, 06:55

Ehether a driver is mathematically able to win the championship or not is NOT in the rules, so I don't see how RBR employing these tactics is any worse than Ferrari in Germany.


And with all due respect, you've have to be a fucking tosser who's never watched F1 if you think team orders aren't part of F1, whether they are obvious or not...


To me it's clear, RBR want Vettel to win. Did anyone catch the Webber interview with the BBC after the race? Says it all. Had it been Vettel ahead in the WDC instead of Webber, they'd have swapped.


Vettel is the better driver, shame about the bad luck, he's lost 73 points in realiability alone...

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by da silva on Tue Nov 09 2010, 14:57

PLAYLIFE wrote:And with all due respect, you've have to be a fucking tosser who's never watched F1 if you think team orders aren't part of F1, whether they are obvious or not...



Rules are rules. The $100k fine for Ferrari in Germany was a fucking joke. If RBR are required to employ team rules in Abu Dhabi to ensure the championship it is only because of Ferrari's flagrancy for the current rules in Germany, it will only right Ferrari's wrong. And with all due respect only a fucking tosser would accuse RBR of being as culpable as Ferrari!
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Tue Nov 09 2010, 19:35

PLAYLIFE wrote:And with all due respect, you've have to be a fucking tosser who's never watched F1 if you think team orders aren't part of F1, whether they are obvious or not...
Well - thank god that that's not aimed at me then. I maybe a fucking tosser, but I have and still do watch F1.

Due respect or not.

Laughably, a "fucking tosser" is surely a contradiction in terms...?

Team Orders...? Yes, for sure they exist.

But to carry out the application of the "Team Order" so blatantly and so callously, and then to question what all of the fuss is about, is the real issue here.

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by PLAYLIFE on Wed Nov 10 2010, 05:18

Sorry if you dudes read that as an insult, it wasn't, maybe my 'Aussie slang' getting in the way there.


C'mon, let's not be naive. Turkey 2010 - McLaren gave team orders, disguised as a 'save fuel' call. Disguised, personally I think that's worse.


Technically speaking, there was no team order. The team never said "Felipe, let Fernando pass." They 'left it up to the driver' to decide. Massa had the option to do it or not. He did it.


People seem to treat the last round with a larger weighting than round 1 for some reason.


Were there any complaints in Ferrari using team tactics in 2007 and 2008 Brazil? Didn't hear squat.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Danny Boy on Wed Nov 10 2010, 05:51

PLAYLIFE wrote:

C'mon, let's not be naive. Turkey 2010 - McLaren gave team orders, disguised as a 'save fuel' call. Disguised, personally I think that's worse. Hamilton was told to save fuel Jenson was not, Lewis said, quite rightly, "fuck that" it is not even in the same league as Brawn inspired favoured driver


Technically speaking, there was no team order. The team never said "Felipe, let Fernando pass." They 'left it up to the driver' to decide. Massa had the option to do it or not. He did it. Again, total bollox, Massa's engineer made Ferrari a laughing stock with his comments to Massa, both during the race and at the end of the race (as Massa was driving back down the pit-lane..


Were there any complaints in Ferrari using team tactics in 2007 and 2008 Brazil? Didn't hear squat.
People have continually complained that F1 has been devalued since the start of the M$ era, 2007 and 2008 were no exception, even Ferrari fans complained, if you don't believe me, check out Dani's posts on he subject
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by PLAYLIFE on Mon Nov 15 2010, 03:16

[quote="Danny Boy"]
PLAYLIFE wrote:

C'mon, let's not be naive. Turkey 2010 - McLaren gave team orders, disguised as a 'save fuel' call. Disguised, personally I think that's worse. Hamilton was told to save fuel Jenson was not, Lewis said, quite rightly, "fuck that" it is not even in the same league as Brawn inspired favoured driver

Explain to me why Lewis was so p1ssed off after the race? And their discussion just before walking out onto the podium? Jenson said he ''misunderstood''. It wasn't shown on the world feed.


[quote="Danny Boy"]
PLAYLIFE wrote:
Technically speaking, there was no team order. The team never said "Felipe, let Fernando pass." They 'left it up to the driver' to decide. Massa had the option to do it or not. He did it. Again, total bollox, Massa's engineer made Ferrari a laughing stock with his comments to Massa, both during the race and at the end of the race (as Massa was driving back down the pit-lane..


Massa was told that same message 4 times. Sure it was 'hint hint Felipe do it', eventually he chose to do so. Again, this information wasn't shown on the world feed.

Danny Boy wrote:
PLAYLIFE wrote:
Were there any complaints in Ferrari using team tactics in 2007 and 2008 Brazil? Didn't hear squat.
People have continually complained that F1 has been devalued since the start of the M$ era, 2007 and 2008 were no exception, even Ferrari fans complained, if you don't believe me, check out Dani's posts on he subject

I didn't complain, nor did my old man. He's been following F1 since the 50s, myself the 80s. I'm a hardcore F1 fan and have always chosen F1 before any team. Maybe it's what 'I've grown up with', but that's what racing is all about. It's the public's perception that has changed over the last few decades since it's now a global sport and hugely in the public eye. Now it's being moved towards the general viewer, rather than the purist motor racing fan.

Glad to see Murray Walker and Sir Stirling agree with my view on team orders. He didn't bitch nor begrudge losing the '58 WDC because of team orders. Best man wins, even if it means he gets help every now and then.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by da silva on Mon Nov 15 2010, 13:50

Team orders weren't illegal in 1958. You keep trying to justify something that is against the rules.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by PLAYLIFE on Tue Nov 16 2010, 01:21

da silva wrote:Team orders weren't illegal in 1958. You keep trying to justify something that is against the rules.

They all do it. Ferrari are just more blatant. You keep believing it doesn't happen.

I have three sources, an engineer who works at Mercedes, one at RBR and one at Ferrari. They were fellow engineers and good friends of my dad's when my dad used to work at Ligier and Larrousse. I cannot say who they are or what they do for obvious reasons, but I can tell you now that they used team orders this year.


This is all I will say on the matter.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Dani on Tue Nov 16 2010, 01:30

Danny Boy- I didn't agree with the Schumacher era tactics nor was I 100% comfortable with what happened earlier this season BUT I understand why the tactics were employed earlier this year. Like I said back then, I may not always agree with it, but it was necessary at the time. It was not always necessary in the Schumacher era, that was the difference this year for me. I was very irritated reading all of those "If Fernando wins the title by less than 7 points it will be tainted" comments in the media prior to the last race. In my opinion if he had won by a few points it would have prouven my point...that strategic decision had to be made for the championship. Besides we wouldn't even be talking about it if Stefano had delivered the message himself.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Werner on Tue Nov 16 2010, 03:03

The difference in the Schumacher era is that team orders were allowed; there were no rules against it.

Now it states in the rules that it is not allowed. That is why it would be tainted. I'm a pretty black and white person, there are some shades of grey but not many for me. It annoyed me to no end they only got a 100 000 fine, it should have been points as well....just sayin'
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Revs on Tue Nov 16 2010, 07:01

Gelert wrote:Laughably, a "fucking tosser" is surely a contradiction in terms...?

not if know how to swear properly...

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by Gelert on Tue Nov 16 2010, 18:04

Revs wrote:
Gelert wrote:Laughably, a "fucking tosser" is surely a contradiction in terms...?

not if know how to swear properly...

Having re-edumacated myself...

Fucking learn fucking grammar ffuxache, you fucking useless fuck...

...fuckin' 'ell... Rolling Eyes

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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

Post by da silva on Tue Nov 16 2010, 18:14

PLAYLIFE wrote:
da silva wrote:Team orders weren't illegal in 1958. You keep trying to justify something that is against the rules.

They all do it. Ferrari are just more blatant. You keep believing it doesn't happen.

I have three sources, an engineer who works at Mercedes, one at RBR and one at Ferrari. They were fellow engineers and good friends of my dad's when my dad used to work at Ligier and Larrousse. I cannot say who they are or what they do for obvious reasons, but I can tell you now that they used team orders this year.


This is all I will say on the matter.

In which case, it proves Ferrari are pretty fucking stupid. Furthermore, team orders means a lot of different things, but you know that, you also know what the rule is applied to.
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Re: How Red Bull won at Interlagos (Brazil 2010)

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