greece and the euro

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greece and the euro

Post by TopContender on Wed May 12 2010, 00:52

Well it looks like 1trillion will be spent to save the euro, and Greece. This to me is madness, and the rest of Europe should boot Greece and from the euro. Now the euro will have to suffer from this mistake. I see the dollar picking up steam, the euro declining, and the US economy growing from the exchange rate.

He'll I even forgot to mention the Brits election.
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Re: greece and the euro

Post by Henrik on Wed May 12 2010, 07:39

I can't say I fully agree with you there. For starters, the amount you are referring to is not to save Greece, but is for the creation of a fund that is to help struggling Euro countries in general. Obviously Greece is a problem, and a lot of funds have been needed to help save its ecenomy. However the current troubles are spreading across the Euro zone as countries have been spending like there is no tomorrow. Portugal and Spain are being pointed out, and Italy is not looking to good either. So, they needed to send a strong message in general with the creation of this fund to show that they will ensure countries do not fold.

I suppose you can compare it to the bank crisis in the US. Many consider that it was a mistake to let Lehman go bust, and that this helped in making the crisis worst than what it could have been. Then finally the government stepped in with the TARP to save the industry. I see this like the Euro zone trying to implement a TARP before any country goes bust, and honestly the only thing they really could do.

The dollar may gain a bit, but to me both the US and the Euro zone are still far from out of their financial crisis, and both will continue to suffer in the coming years.

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Re: greece and the euro

Post by TopContender on Thu May 13 2010, 03:35

I just wonder how long France and Germany can carry the periphery members. I recall that Euro members need to meet certain criteria, and this looks like a bailout no matter what. Nobody wins in this mess.
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Re: greece and the euro

Post by Revs on Thu May 13 2010, 08:31

we live in a society... and you can't eat money... what other use is there for it if you can't help people with it... it's just digits on a screen... 1T? pffft... the important this is to learn something from it, not kick someone when theyre down.
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Re: greece and the euro

Post by eso on Fri May 14 2010, 05:33

Revs wrote:we live in a society... and you can't eat money... what other use is there for it if you can't help people with it... it's just digits on a screen... 1T? pffft... the important this is to learn something from it, not kick someone when theyre down.

Well stated.

The anarchist in me really wouldn't mind seeing the whole mess melting down. Were that to happen all of the money in the world wouldn't mean sh*t: if you don't have a commodity or service of value in barter you've no capital. I have plenty of know-how, means and skills to be valuable under those circumstances. People whose skills are trading abstractions for abstractions will be of no use in the short term and only of marginal use once the dust settles.


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Re: greece and the euro

Post by Henrik on Fri May 14 2010, 14:03

The problem today is that countries like Greece (Spain and Portugal also qualifies, as does France...) is that their state spending is totally messed up. They have far too many state employed people that have grown used to the easy and secure life of getting everything from the state. They are also the ones who start bitching as soon as there is even a mention of a reduction of their benefits. If you ask the silent private sector in these countries, you will get a totally different opinion than what you are seeing in the media. They have already had to adapt to the financial crisis to survive, and generally feel it is about time that something is done to improve the state economy.

In France they have now just begun looking at overhauling their state pension. As it is today, they retire at 60 which simply does not work today. People live longer, and there just is no money available to pay out all these pensions. However, you even just mention raising the retirement age to maybe 63 and the country is in a uproar and immediately take to the streets blocking everything. What they refuse to realize is somebody has to pay.

So, their solution to the problem is then to tax even more the private sector employers to cover the pension deficit. Then as more an more companies relocate outside France, they complain that they are losing their jobs. What they don't understand, or rather refuse to understand, is that the ever increasing costs to run a business in France means that is no longer economically viable to do so.

The looming state austerity in Europe is a must for the Euro zone to survive.

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Re: greece and the euro

Post by TopContender on Sat May 15 2010, 21:45

Let me guess, it is almost impossible to fire a state employee in France? We have the same issue here.

This mess is getting bad. Obama sent Vockler over to run his mouth, and it seemed like payback for what a few heads of state said about the US dollar.
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Re: greece and the euro

Post by Henrik on Sat May 15 2010, 23:56

It's not almost impossible, it IS impossible. Hell, it is almost impossible to fire somebody in the private sector in France...

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