Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

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Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by TopContender on Sat Nov 21 2009, 17:46

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

If you own any shares in alternative energy companies I should start dumping them NOW. The conspiracy behind the Anthropogenic Global Warming myth (aka AGW; aka ManBearPig) has been suddenly, brutally and quite deliciously exposed after a hacker broke into the computers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit (aka Hadley CRU) and released 61 megabites of confidential files onto the internet. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That)

When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

One of the alleged emails has a gentle gloat over the death in 2004 of John L Daly (one of the first climate change sceptics, founder of the Still Waiting For Greenhouse site), commenting:

“In an odd way this is cheering news.”

But perhaps the most damaging revelations – the scientific equivalent of the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal – are those concerning the way Warmist scientists may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.

Here are a few tasters. (So far, we can only refer to them as alleged emails because – though Hadley CRU’s director Phil Jones has confirmed the break-in to Ian Wishart at the Briefing Room – he has yet to fess up to any specific contents.) But if genuine, they suggest dubious practices such as:

Manipulation of evidence:

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up:

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.

Suppression of evidence:

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?

Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.

Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address.

We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists:

Next
time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I’ll be tempted to beat
the crap out of him. Very tempted.

Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP):

……Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and many of which are available nearly 2K back–I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “MWP”, even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back….

And, perhaps most reprehensibly, a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. How, in other words, to create a scientific climate in which anyone who disagrees with AGW can be written off as a crank, whose views do not have a scrap of authority.

“This was the danger of always criticising the skeptics for not publishing in the “peer-reviewed literature”. Obviously, they found a solution to that–take over a journal! So what do we do about this? I think we have to stop considering “Climate Research” as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board…What do others think?”

“I will be emailing the journal to tell them I’m having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.”“It results from this journal having a number of editors. The responsible one for this is a well-known skeptic in NZ. He has let a few papers through by Michaels and Gray in the past. I’ve had words with Hans von Storch about this, but got nowhere. Another thing to discuss in Nice !”

Hadley CRU has form in this regard. In September – I wrote the story up here as “How the global warming industry is based on a massive lie” – Hadley CRU’s researchers were exposed as having “cherry-picked” data in order to support their untrue claim that global temperatures had risen higher at the end of the 20th century than at any time in the last millenium. Hadley CRU was also the organisation which – in contravention of all acceptable behaviour in the international scientific community – spent years withholding data from researchers it deemed unhelpful to its cause. This matters because Hadley CRU, established in 1990 by the Met Office, is a government-funded body which is supposed to be a model of rectitude. Its HadCrut record is one of the four official sources of global temperature data used by the IPCC.

I asked in my title whether this will be the final nail in the coffin of Anthropenic Global Warming. This was wishful thinking, of course. In the run up to Copenhagen, we will see more and more hysterical (and grotesquely exaggerated) stories such as this in the Mainstream Media. And we will see ever-more-virulent campaigns conducted by eco-fascist activists, such as this risible new advertising campaign by Plane Stupid showing CGI polar bears falling from the sky and exploding because kind of, like, man, that’s sort of what happens whenever you take another trip on an aeroplane.

The world is currently cooling; electorates are increasingly reluctant to support eco-policies leading to more oppressive regulation, higher taxes and higher utility bills; the tide is turning against Al Gore’s Anthropogenic Global Warming theory. The so-called “sceptical” view is now also the majority view.

Unfortunately, we’ve a long, long way to go before the public mood (and scientific truth) is reflected by our policy makers. There are too many vested interests in AGW, with far too much to lose either in terms of reputation or money, for this to end without a bitter fight.

But if the Hadley CRU scandal is true,it’s a blow to the AGW lobby’s
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by gueuzeman on Sat Nov 21 2009, 19:11

Last line- "But if the Hadley CRU scandal is true,it’s a blow to the AGW lobby’s"

BUT IF IT IS....... So it may not be. Possible last ditch efforts by the cornered animal before it is killed?

So what is this writers angle? So many of the deniers of global warming have been shown to be on the payroll of the oil companies, tends to diminish their credibility.

.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by eso on Sun Nov 22 2009, 04:15

Silly gueuze. Don't you know that the almighty dollar must be made regardless of consequences to the planet or society?

I keep thinking of the old adage "Don't tiot where you eat"... The problem is that we can't help tiotting AND eating here, so I think the trying to tiot and eat less is in all of our best interests regardless of the politics involved...

eso
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Revs on Thu Feb 25 2010, 03:58

eso wrote:Silly gueuze. Don't you know that the almighty dollar must be made regardless of consequences to the planet or society?

I keep thinking of the old adage "Don't tiot where you eat"... The problem is that we can't help tiotting AND eating here, so I think the trying to tiot and eat less is in all of our best interests regardless of the politics involved...

eso


doesn't matter... one of the first and most important things they did at the last world conference - despite the bs african nations stuffing up agreement - was declaring greenhouse gases toxic to living organisisms... doesn't matter if the world's warming or not...
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by glendo on Thu Feb 25 2010, 07:04

when the last damn is polluted, the last river has dried up, and the last forest has been cut down, we will realise that money cannot be eaten.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by H8R on Thu Feb 25 2010, 16:22

glendo wrote:when the last damn is polluted, the last river has dried up, and the last forest has been cut down, we will realise that money cannot be eaten.

Yep.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by pabs on Thu Feb 25 2010, 18:41

Wow, I mean WOW!! How could I have missed this?

For starters, did anyone actually read the emails that were leaked? And really, is that what you consider proof that scientists were faking their results?

In the words of Chad Ochocinco: child, PLEASE!

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Henrik on Thu Feb 25 2010, 20:18

To be honest, I have not read what was in those emails, and I really don't care.

My thinking is, regardless of global warming or not, it will not hurt the earth if we reduce polution, so let's do it!

Over-population, erradication of forests, and massive polution is not natural. The more that is done to reduce these the better off future generations will be.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by pabs on Thu Feb 25 2010, 20:32

That's a very sensible position as well.

Even if there is no global warming (which there is), and even if it is not caused by humans (which it is), there is absolutely nothing wrong with moving forward with more efficient energy solutions.

I still don't understand why some people are so hell-bent on using every last drop of oil or every last bit of coal.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by H8R on Thu Feb 25 2010, 21:02

I find the right mantra about AGW almost funny. I seem to hear global warming all the time...but in fact it's climate change. I recently saw that global warming movie... The Day After tomorrow.

I laughed.

In that last 5 months we've had a big ice shelf break off...water spouts and tornado's off of San Diego and Los Angeles, and record cold and snow in places it's unheard of...

Nahhhhh...bust be a giant liberal conspiracy.

I loved the beating the talking heads on Fox got from the Daily Show about it. Beautiful Sarcasm....wish I had a link.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by eso on Thu Feb 25 2010, 22:19

I am continually amazed by the vehemence with which the deniers pursue their indefensible position.

At the very least, I can ditto Henrik's & pabs' take.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by eso on Thu Feb 25 2010, 22:25

H8R wrote:... In that last 5 months we've had a big ice shelf break off...water spouts and tornado's off of San Diego and Los Angeles, and record cold and snow in places it's unheard of...


Global warming is a bad term, a fact which the deniers love to seize upon. They also have a real difficulty understanding that there's a huge difference between weather and Climate.

The climate here in southern California is very different from what is was 40 years ago. The last 5 years the summers have been increasingly humid, something unheard of here when I was a kid.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by pabs on Thu Feb 25 2010, 22:46

I agree, eso.

I find myself constantly arguing with people over why is this winter so cold when there is global warming. This argument shows a misconception about both concepts (global warming and climate/weather).

Global warming means that the average global temperature is increasing. So you can have the coldest ever recorded winter in history in a particular city, but if the rest of the world is heating up then you have a net increase in the average global temperature.

Also, climate usually refers to very long time periods measured at least in decades and more commonly in centuries or millenia. Year-to-year variations do not amount to very much. It would be like people saying the stock market crashed because the Dow lost 100 points today even if it has constantly been gaining 10 points per day over the last 30 days.

Granted, we do not fully understand why certain trends are occurring and more research needs to be done. But none of that should stop us from moving forward.

Another thing that upsets me is the argument that the earth had warmer periods before. Well, yeah, so what? We are not living in the middle ages anymore. The population we have now is what, 100 times larger than it was back then? We now cover much more area than we did back then, our food supply has completely changed. So how can people argue that everything will be fine this time around when we live in a different world?

Dumb!

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by eso on Thu Feb 25 2010, 23:28

A year or two ago I caught an interesting bit on Frontline (A public broadcasting investigative journalism show for you ferners) dealing with "Global Dimming".

Apparently increasing amounts of particulate matter in the atmosphere is blocking significant amount of solar radiation from reaching the ground. The research was mostly compiled from pan evaporation data, some of which goes back 100 years (measuring evaporation of water from a pan of water).

So, another form of pollution is effectively masking some of the climate change impact from another form of pollution.

Nice, huh?

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by glendo on Fri Feb 26 2010, 03:08

i love how over-population (ie: the human plague) is always looked over. we are breeding out of control, this is the number one problem of the planet.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Revs on Fri Feb 26 2010, 04:16

yep, too many people!


and minute dust particles, or soot, gets trapped in ice and then absorbs heat that would otherwise be reflected back out into space... doing the majority of glacial and icecap melting...

also, the sun has been in a steady state of decline with its magnetism (sunspot activity)... the latest solar minmum has dragged on longer than they have encounted in modern times... i think there was one in the dark ages, a monk did tallies of them, and there was a big winter or something... but i'm not totally sure.

found a link to it...
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/06/02/livingston-and-penn-paper-sunspots-may-vanish-by-2015/
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by RacerX on Sun Feb 28 2010, 03:04

Not to deny that man can have some sort of impact on the "climate"...but I do have a couple of questions that always come to mind when I read/hear of this stuff.

1.) Does the Sun always burn at roughly the same temperature? In other words, does it cycle through various stages of hotter & cooler periods? Could this impact our climate?

2.) How did the last couple of ice ages end? Supposedly we've had a few, and some of them might have been before man was ever around? Definitely before SUV's were on the planet...

3.) How is it temps on our two nearest planets (Venus & Mars) seem to follow suit, and there's definitely not any man, or SUV's on either of those planets?

4.) Someone above me mention eating money...LOL...I've always thought if you want to find the real reason ANYTHING is ever done on a large scale (espcially a global one), follow the money. Sure enough, when you break all these Kyoto & Climate agreements down, they ALL center around one thing: the transfer of funds out of countries...one country in particular.

5.) Can we really judge global climate by how how things were when we were kids? Really? I mean growing up I always laughed at the song about "April showers bringing May flowers." Because when I was a kid, it always seemed to rain in March...April's were by and large freaking the best time of year. Then as I grew older I noticed it seemed to rain less and less in March. Well, this year has been one of the wettest, and coldest (about 19 degrees below our average temps) Winter on record. Definitely NOT global warming. I know this would prove that point, but how do we know it doesn't always go through cycles? It seems evrything else in the universe does.

Also, I have a hard time believing these scientists. I think the climate change guys got it wrong in naming it what they named it...both times! When I was young, a scientest came on TV and claimed if we don't change our ways by the end of the decade (this was 1975) we'd all be in a global cooling period that would destroy mankind, making the last ice age look silly.

H'mmm...then thirty years later these guys are claiming if we don't change our ways temps will reach record highs all over the planet. Seems to me it's always somehting with these guys...drama, drama, drama...oh, and money. They all seem to want money, to. The first atomic bomb was detonated, and they (these scientist guys again) claimed they feared the entier atmosphere would catch ablaze. H'mm...or how about the scientists whom claimed that when the two black holes come together, it would tear the very fabric of space as we know it.

For me and my family, I think it's more along the lines of common sense. I think people should be conservative. Waste nothing! Then let the cards fall where they may. The rest is just too political, and just like politics: too many extremists, and too many hypocrits (read: al gore and his carbon footprint from hell...but hey, he's raked in over 100 million DOLLARS since he started his campaign against global warming.) What a fraud.

It's written somewhere that "...a time will come when people will no longer listen to reasonable, wholesome teaching. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them great numbers of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." This reminds me of al gore evertime I hear/read it.

I guess I've rambled to the point where I've alienated an entire sect of religious folk, pissed off the socialists, and probably offended everyone else here, so I better shut it down for a night...LOL.

After all, if it really bothers you, just consider the source! ;-)

Regards...
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Danny Boy on Sun Feb 28 2010, 05:28

Whilst I accept that mankind could do more with more thoughtful approach to life, I think the whole climate debate is being used to create more taxes for Government and bigger profits for Big- Business.

As for overcrowding, whenever I'm approached by a charity, especially for the starving hordes in Africa, I always ask if they have an enforced sterilisation policy, if not, I will not contribute.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by glendo on Sun Feb 28 2010, 06:17

Rx, you raise heaps of good points.

we have had 6 or 7 ice ages in the planets history.

i truly think that industrialization is ruining the planet. think about it.. where does all the exhaust from cars, factories, and power plants etc go to? the atmosphere... and there is no hatch on that to let it out and vent. we have a sealed lid on the planet so it is all staying inside.

i have developed another theory or philosophy of the whole 'global warming/climate change' conundrom:

1. im starting to think the ice caps act as earth's buffer for temperatures. (basically) if the planet gets to hot/ heat makes ice melt/mother nature dumps lots of ice/ it cools down the climate/ freezes back up again when all is normal. extremes on this scale are ice ages, and total melts. i dont know what happens when we hit one or the other , but in the end the system must kinda 'reboot' itself and things eventually gets back to a normalcy.

2. the world is constantly moving, and changing. since the beginning of the beginning the continents have moved, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods etc. they have happened a zillion times before and they will keep happening. nothing we do can or will stop them. the planet/mother nature is unpredictable and inconsistent. what happens each day, only happens on that day, and most of it is irreversible.

3. most of mankind seems to rely/depend on constants and predictability. we depend on the seasons to be predictable, we depend on food production to be at the very least predictable, and we build our civilisations on being predictable. we basically dont like dramatic change for our civilisations. a happy farmer is a farmer that gets his rain when he expects it, the crops grow, and the harvest to be as expected. we design it all on the expectation of a constant, and predictability. almost everything in this planet we make (except babies mind you) is built on this basically for it to work.

now, this wouldnt really be a problem, but the world around is unpredictable, and forever changing mixed in with our human design of constants and predictability. they are the exact opposite of each other and of course are going to clash with each other's existance.

nature/earth: unpredictable, irrersible
man/civilisation: predictable, constant

this may not sound like a big deal? well as never before we have man-handled the four corners of the globe for our survival. 5000 years ago an earthquake in chile would not have affected europe, in fact they most likely wouldnt of even known it occured. but now it is a big deal.

globalisation

food production and trade is going to be affected in this region. this will have consequences for the rest of the world today in various ways or forms. we rely on each other more than ever before.

4. now with 6 billion of us and growing by the second, anything that happens anywhere is a problem. if the 2004 tsunami happened 300 years ago, there was less humans on the planet, less development, therefore less impact on us. i bet we wouldnt of even known that it would of hit the maldives, and really wouldnt of cared. it wouldnt of wiped out 400,000 people, as there probably wasnt even that many in total population of the area.

yes climate change is a daily event, always has been, always will be. but as a race we now cover the whole planet, so as a race we have become extremely sensitive and reactive to change, most notably natural changes like earthquakes etc. plus our techological waste is more than ever before. we have even polluted the moon, and earth's orbit with thousands of tons of metal (we are on the verge of creating a man-made ring around the planet based on the amount of satellites we have up there).

5. we are fucking up the planet yes, but what is going to affect us more is what we will do to each other more than what the planet will do to us. we are eating, drinking and consuming ourselves to death, and once there is only a few scraps of food to live on, lets see who gets it with billions of mouths to feed.

can you picture 12 dogs in a pit, starving and thirsty? now if you threw just 1 piece of steak into that pit, watch how they react... i dont think diplomacy would come into it, and i dont think the dogs would divide the steak up into 12 pieces so no-one misses out.

and can you imagine what would happen a month later? i bet there would only be a few dogs left, as they will starting attacking each other to survive. the living would live off the dead.

and that is how nature works..... now imagine this story with 7 or 8 Billion people?

the earth will repair itself, but that will take 100,000s of years to do. we are going to run out of things this century.

'HUMAN CHANGE' IS GOING TO BE WORSE THAN CLIMATE CHANGE. it has already started with scale of human migration that is going on at present.


tip:
-move to NZ or tasmania. they will be as far away from chaos as you can get.
-buy lots of land there.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Henrik on Sun Feb 28 2010, 10:51

Racer, I tend to agree with you. There is so much bullshit being said by so many, which is why I simply apply common sense as I mentioned earlier. I get annoyed when they put on carbon taxes and stuff, as if me paying more taxes will make the world cleaner. I know the basic idea is that the higher price is to get me to consume less, but the way it is done is so that that rich people can simply pay so as to pollute more.

As to the over population issue it is something I have had a beef with for as long as I can remember. In my previous post I put it as the first problem with the world, and I truly believe it is the primary problem. I get furious when I see there is a major climate summit and the pope is there and not one single member of the summit dares to speak up against the catholic church and the negative impact their preaching has on the population issue. It's like, we must respect the church. Fuck that! The cahtholic church has always been, and still is, the biggest source of the over population problem in the world, especially in places like Africa and South America.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by gueuzeman on Sun Feb 28 2010, 12:07

Henrik- population issues are far worse in Asia than South America and Africa. Not too much Catholicism in India , Indonesia and China, but there is in the Phillipines. I do agree that the pope has not been called out on this stance.

I do believe that the p
needs about a 50% reduction in population, and a god water shortage will do nicley.

Racer X- regurgitated talking points.
[quote]I've always thought if you want to find the real reason ANYTHING is ever done on a large scale (espcially a global one), follow the money. Sure enough, when you break all these Kyoto & Climate agreements down, they ALL center around one thing: the transfer of funds out of countries...one country in particular.

But for decades when the U.S. has been raping the world in the name of big corporate profits and excessive consumption, I'll bet you felt it was your right as an American to do so.

Demonizing Al Gore is an easy dodge to keep from looking in the mirror.

Just saying "be a little conservativ4e"- without changing any of your lifestyle habits does nothing.

.
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Danny Boy on Sun Feb 28 2010, 13:50

RacerX wrote:
(read: al gore and his carbon footprint from hell...but hey, he's raked in over 100 million DOLLARS since he started his campaign against global warming.) What a fraud.

It's written somewhere that "...a time will come when people will no longer listen to reasonable, wholesome teaching. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them great numbers of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." This reminds me of al gore evertime I hear/read it.



Regards...

Then there are some of us who would say Rush Limbaugh and the idiot Sarah Palin, fit that bill, not to mention Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, or indeed, any of the racist bigots that sanctioned this Bill

Forewarned puke puke
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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by Henrik on Sun Feb 28 2010, 16:24

gueuzeman wrote:Henrik- population issues are far worse in Asia than South America and Africa. Not too much Catholicism in India , Indonesia and China, but there is in the Phillipines. I do agree that the pope has not been called out on this stance.

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I would agree that Asia is a major problem area with regards to over population, but the situation is a bit different there. For starters China which obviously has the biggest population in the world, has been very effective in trying to keep it from exploding. We are all aware of the one child per couple policy that has been imposed since Mao, and is only now being loosened. I really don't think they could have done more, and so here obviously religion is not an issue. However, imagine if China would have been a predominantly catholic country! I think the population would not be "just" at 1.4 billion but more like 3 billion otherwise.

The thing is, not only has the catholic church not been called out on the population issue, but they keep preaching against contraceptiion and embrace large families. They do have considerable influence in many of the world's poorest areas even if not all. I supppose one can argue that all the deaths generated by wars in the name of religion counter-balances this...

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

Post by gueuzeman on Sun Feb 28 2010, 17:09

one can argue that all the deaths generated by wars in the name of religion counter-balances this...


LOL, Hen, exactly. Cannon fodder.

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Re: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

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